Debate on whether to pay CJ or not(video)

[JLocker10]

if you all drop the misogynistic shit for a second...you'd realize the lady had a point. Marketability is huge factor in contacts.

people want to pretend it's all about football and playing the game and winning.....there is more to it.

that being said...i agree with Oilerman that she should have pointed out how stud RB do not equate to winning seasons or suprebowls automatically.

i still think we need to pay him. Not QB money....but pay him a truckload.

You could say that about any position sans QB

How many games has Patrick Willis won in SF?

How many games did Suh win last season?

How many games did Megatron win in 08?

How many playoff games has Andre Johnson led HOU to?

Fitzgerald?

Demarcus Ware?

[StephenIsLegend]

It's nice to know some people can see reason.

It was hard typing that. I was a hardcore homer in arguments to where I never would believe what others would say. To be honest, the hold out has opened my eyes to how he is. I went back and looked over posts, videos of highlights and everything else.

I'll be happy the day Locker becomes the face of the franchise. CJ is elite, but he is not this over-all 99 rating on Madden many posters believe he is.

If he shows something this season that points differently than my current opinion, I'll change my belief. Until he proves to be an elite all around back he is just a really good back with elite speed (even that is diminishing).

[HOTT]

Whatever he gets it's above what his signed contract says he should get. He STILL has two years to go on it. I won't pay the ungrateful bed wetter one penny more than what he gets right now. And Carson Palmer can just retire for all I care--that means I won't owe him the 24 Million or so left on his contract either.

Mike Brown

[Cyrus]

Here's the thing. It's easy to go back with a skeptical eye and determine that Chris Johnson isn't an All-Pro. We can begin to argue that this or that run really was due to some external factor and that his numbers are a fabrication. Ultimately we can end up feeling that he's over-rated, a product of speed, a system and his situation.

That is until we go back and do the same for Adrian Peterson. Then for Jamaal Charles. Then for everyone else. Then we realize that everyone is overrated and has a reputation that far exceeds their actual ability.

So what are we left with? Chris Johnson, relatively speaking is still better than virtually every peer. All these discussions begin to sound like "sour grape" arguments because fans are afraid he'll miss time.

[Guest]

Cyrus, I don't think anyone disputes CJ is a top tier RB. The point is that he is not head and shoulders better than guys like AP and MJD. I'm a huge Charles fan and his numbers last year were awesome however he's not in that company yet. I expect him to be after this year though.

[HOTT]

IMO CJ is a very special RB. I'd be willing to pay him what is fair--top RB money and nothing more. Right now it appears to me that he is on some sort of ego trip and needs to come back to reality. I don't know whether he is contemplating sitting out or not, but every day he's not with the team means that much less prep for the season in a new offense. At some point the team will have to decide whether to push on without him or not. They say they are willing to make him the highest paid RB and all he has to do is "come on down". Well damnit CJ, get your ass in there and get things rolling. If you and your agent don't like it you can make a counter offer.

[StephenIsLegend]

Here's the thing. It's easy to go back with a skeptical eye and determine that Chris Johnson isn't an All-Pro. We can begin to argue that this or that run really was due to some external factor and that his numbers are a fabrication. Ultimately we can end up feeling that he's over-rated, a product of speed, a system and his situation.

That is until we go back and do the same for Adrian Peterson. Then for Jamaal Charles. Then for everyone else. Then we realize that everyone is overrated and has a reputation that far exceeds their actual ability.

So what are we left with? Chris Johnson, relatively speaking is still better than virtually every peer. All these discussions begin to sound like "sour grape" arguments because fans are afraid he'll miss time.

Can you agree that CJ's elite speed accounts for basically everything he has accomplished?

Teams aren't afraid of his hands, in my opinion. They aren't afraid of his vision or his juke, either. The reason teams fear him is because he has an elite version of a skill coveted by football teams this day and age. The thing is, what happens when you take away his speed? Is he still all-pro caliber? Or when it diminishes, does he his become average because of his other attributes oft hidden byhis elite speed.

[Dmeade-]

IMO CJ is a very special RB. I'd be willing to pay him what is fair--top RB money and nothing more. Right now it appears to me that he is on some sort of ego trip and needs to come back to reality. I don't know whether he is contemplating sitting out or not, but every day he's not with the team means that much less prep for the season in a new offense. At some point the team will have to decide whether to push on without him or not. They say they are willing to make him the highest paid RB and all he has to do is "come on down". Well damnit CJ, get your ass in there and get things rolling. If you and your agent don't like it you can make a counter offer.

You just said you wouldn't pay him a cent more that's already on his current contract. Make up your mind and quit ranting like an old fool.

The NFL is a business and CJ is doing what he thinks is the best business decision. Who knows, he could be right. We will see how this plays out.

[Omar]

Can you agree that CJ's elite speed accounts for basically everything he has accomplished?

Teams aren't afraid of his hands, in my opinion. They aren't afraid of his vision or his juke, either. The reason teams fear him is because he has an elite version of a skill coveted by football teams this day and age. The thing is, what happens when you take away his speed? Is he still all-pro caliber? Or when it diminishes, does he his become average because of his other attributes oft hidden byhis elite speed.

Good post...

[Cyrus]

Cyrus, I don't think anyone disputes CJ is a top tier RB. The point is that he is not head and shoulders better than guys like AP and MJD. I'm a huge Charles fan and his numbers last year were awesome however he's not in that company yet. I expect him to be after this year though.

He's not head and shoulders above Adrian Peterson and he won't be paid like it either. I'm not sure what this has to do with AP. In terms of MJD, he's a much more dynamic player. It will depend on what someone considers "head and shoulders" above, but people like MJD (fantasy) because he scores TDs because he gets all the opportunities. Did you know that MJD has never had a 1,400+ rushing season in his 5 year career?

Can you agree that CJ's elite speed accounts for basically everything he has accomplished?

Teams aren't afraid of his hands, in my opinion. They aren't afraid of his vision or his juke, either. The reason teams fear him is because he has an elite version of a skill coveted by football teams this day and age. The thing is, what happens when you take away his speed? Is he still all-pro caliber? Or when it diminishes, does he his become average because of his other attributes oft hidden byhis elite speed.

I totally disagree. The NFL sees track players all the time and most of them never do anything. Chris Johnson is special because he's a natural runner who has very good vision, acceleration, change of direction and understands blocking schemes. It's what Chris Johnson does in the first ten or so yards that sets him up for the long runs.

[Guest]

Can you agree that CJ's elite speed accounts for basically everything he has accomplished?

Teams aren't afraid of his hands, in my opinion. They aren't afraid of his vision or his juke, either. The reason teams fear him is because he has an elite version of a skill coveted by football teams this day and age. The thing is, what happens when you take away his speed? Is he still all-pro caliber? Or when it diminishes, does he his become average because of his other attributes oft hidden byhis elite speed.

I think CJ has more than just speed. He has very good vision which is evident by how well he's able to cut back and gain positive yards. He's also a tougher inside runner than people give him credit for. That being said outside of elite speed, what does CJ truly do better than the other guys he's compared to? Peterson and MJD both run with more power. Both are able to take it the distance from anywhere on the field even though CJ is obviously a greater threat. MJD is clearly better in the passing game. Peterson seems to have fixed his fumbling issues as he only lost 1 last year while both CJ and MJD lost 2.

Look deeper into the numbers and it's plain as day. CJ is an elite NFL RB but he's not transcendent like some claim.

[StephenIsLegend]

I totally disagree. The NFL sees track players all the time and most of them never do anything. Chris Johnson is special because he's a natural runner who has very good vision, acceleration, change of direction and understands blocking schemes. It's what Chris Johnson does in the first ten or so yards that sets him up for the long runs.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this. I don't think anything other than his speed is elite. He is above average as a running back minus the speed, but I dont think he is amazing at it. It's hard to agree with him having great vision and the ability to understand blocking schemes considering the number of negative or null plays he has had.

Tell me, though-if he didn't have the elite speed, would he have gotten the numerous long runs he has had?

[StephenIsLegend]

I didn't mean to make it sound like CJ is all speed and pedestrian at every other aspect. I'm just saying the only thing truly elite is his speed. Other than that, he has ABOVE AVERAGE TO ALMOST GREAT attributes, such as vision and feet. His cut backs are pretty sick too.

[big2033]

Merril Hoge said as much on NFL live yesterday. He went so far as to say CJ is not a complete back ala AP and that the Titans will send the wrong message if they cave into CJ's demands.

You sure it was Hoge? Because Hoge that very same day on Sportsnation said CJ deserved top playmaker money. He did add that the Titans shouldnt cave until he shows.

Colin Cowherd is the one who said he doesn't deserve it.

And to add on what he's great at I'll say this: What makes CJ so exciting as a player is I can't compare him to any player in NFL history. Usually when you're that unique you make a dent in the NFL.

[Guest]

He's not head and shoulders above Adrian Peterson and he won't be paid like it either. I'm not sure what this has to do with AP. In terms of MJD, he's a much more dynamic player. It will depend on what someone considers "head and shoulders" above, but people like MJD (fantasy) because he scores TDs because he gets all the opportunities. Did you know that MJD has never had a 1,400+ rushing season in his 5 year career?

MJD has only carried the load the past two years and averaged 1357.5 rushing yards so your 1400 yard argument is a little weak. Secondly, MJD only had 5 rushing TD's last year because Del Rio likes to use Jennings around the goal line for some stupid reason so acting like he's a fantasy RB for TD purposes is also just as weak a statement as your first one. I won't even get into MJD vs CJ in the passing game. CJ and MJD are the same class of RB but MJD is the more complete back and it's not even close. CJ's elite speed just narrows the gap between the two.