XAEA12 Posted July 11, 2014 Report Share Posted July 11, 2014 I just said that you can win a SB with Dalton. You can win with most QB's with the right talent around them. The idea is to find the guy that you can win with if the rest of your roster is not up to par. When has this actually happened? When has a QB been so good that he masked a weak roster and actually gone all the way? Brady never did it. Manning never did it. Rodgers didn't do it. Brees didn't do it. Eli didn't do it Flacco didn't do it Wilson didn't do it A good qb can get you to the playoffs with a weak roster, but come playoff time, that team always gets exposed in the end. Like any position, having the elite qb is nice but a luxury, and may be a guarantee to be competitive every year, but not any more a guarantee to win it all than with a guy like Dalton. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scine09 Posted July 11, 2014 Report Share Posted July 11, 2014 I think after 3 years being 15th is pretty damn good. I'd take Dalton over Eli, Flacco, and smith based on the fact he's only entering his 4th year. 6 of one half a dozen of the other. None of those guys will ever be elite nor will Dalton. With Manning, Flacco, Smith or Dalton you're still going to need a top team to win it all. Is Locker as good as any of those guys? Not even close. Can he be? No idea. I feel like there's untapped potential there that Whisenhunt can tap. I don't feel that way with Dalton. I think with most of the QB's it doesn't matter a heck of a lot if you have one middle of the road guy over another middle of the road guy. What you don't want is a Geno Smith. You need a guy that can play at least competently. But when things get tough can Locker elevate himself to a player that can win games without a lot of help? I still feel that the potential is there. I don't feel like that with Dalton. Which is why I wouldn't make the trade. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scine09 Posted July 11, 2014 Report Share Posted July 11, 2014 When has this actually happened? When has a QB been so good that he masked a weak roster and actually gone all the way? Brady never did it. Manning never did it. Rodgers didn't do it. Brees didn't do it. Eli didn't do it Flacco didn't do it Wilson didn't do it A good qb can get you to the playoffs with a weak roster, but come playoff time, that team always gets exposed in the end. Like any position, having the elite qb is nice but a luxury, and may be a guarantee to be competitive every year, but not any more a guarantee to win it all than with a guy like Dalton. Actually Rodgers did do it in 2010. That GB team was 10-6 and really not all that good. Manning for years took Indy teams with horrible defenses and running games and won 12 games a season. When you have a franchise QB you are going to be in contention even if your supporting cast is mediocre. How good do you think the Colts, Packers and Broncos would be if you replaced their QB's with EJ Manuel, Geno Smith or Brian Hoyer? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bizzyeddie Posted July 11, 2014 Report Share Posted July 11, 2014 Isn't anyone sick & tired of not going to the playoffs every friggin year? It's like everyone just wants to sit around for 100 years hoping we somehow draft the next Tom Brady. I could give a rat's ass about the superbowl right now...lets just focus on being good enough to be considered a playoff team. we got a whole new thing going on in Tenn and it would be nice to get off on a good foot so at least the fans and most importantly the players buy into whats happening Dalton would make that a whole lot easier to accomplish then what we got. I think the Bengals are in a much better position to identify where there problems are (and maybe it is Dalton that's holding them back) and try to correct them. We on the other hand cant even identify three players on our team that are pretty damn good. It aint that difficult to be "best of the rest" and get into the playoffs. I think that lies more with coaching and the quality of an organization than it does with talent level. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkiller Posted July 11, 2014 Report Share Posted July 11, 2014 Dalton turns it over to much to be counted on. There's no way I'd want to tie my cart to that horse. You can win without a top QB but I don't think you can win with one who turns the ball over a lot. And I suspect there are debates about this very issue going on around Bengals boards we could link to but I don't have the time to go looking for them right now. Again, he's a solid starter. But I think his stats are significantly boosted by AJ Green and some other pretty talented WRs with lesser names bailing him out. And I would not give him a huge contract that makes him a potential boat anchor down the road. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bizzyeddie Posted July 11, 2014 Report Share Posted July 11, 2014 6 of one half a dozen of the other. None of those guys will ever be elite nor will Dalton. With Manning, Flacco, Smith or Dalton you're still going to need a top team to win it all. Is Locker as good as any of those guys? Not even close. Can he be? No idea. I feel like there's untapped potential there that Whisenhunt can tap. I don't feel that way with Dalton. Dalton is still gonna be in the league when the current elite QB's are gone so at some point a new crop of elite QB's are going to have to emerge. I'm sure everyone points to Luck but who else. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 11, 2014 Report Share Posted July 11, 2014 6 of one half a dozen of the other. None of those guys will ever be elite nor will Dalton. With Manning, Flacco, Smith or Dalton you're still going to need a top team to win it all. Is Locker as good as any of those guys? Not even close. Can he be? No idea. I feel like there's untapped potential there that Whisenhunt can tap. I don't feel that way with Dalton. I think with most of the QB's it doesn't matter a heck of a lot if you have one middle of the road guy over another middle of the road guy. What you don't want is a Geno Smith. You need a guy that can play at least competently. But when things get tough can Locker elevate himself to a player that can win games without a lot of help? I still feel that the potential is there. I don't feel like that with Dalton. Which is why I wouldn't make the trade. So its all about potential over production? According to you If Locker put of the stats and won like Dalton has somehow that would mean he has the ability to carry his team to the superbowl. It defies logic. Teams are winning the superbowl without the elite QBS you keep mentioning. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scine09 Posted July 11, 2014 Report Share Posted July 11, 2014 Dalton is still gonna be in the league when the current elite QB's are gone so at some point a new crop of elite QB's are going to have to emerge. I'm sure everyone points to Luck but who else. Right now it really doesn't look like there will be as many elite QB's. We went through a period like that after Elway, Aikman, Marino and Young retired. From 2000 until about 2005 there weren't really many elite QB's. Think back to 2005. Who were the elite QB's. Peyton Manning? Not sure if Brady was elite by then despite the SB wins. Who else was there? Favre was getting toward the end. McNair toward the end. Culpepper's best days were behind him. McNabb I don't think was ever elite. It was a dark time for elite QB's. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 11, 2014 Report Share Posted July 11, 2014 Dalton turns it over to much to be counted on. There's no way I'd want to tie my cart to that horse. You can win without a top QB but I don't think you can win with one who turns the ball over a lot. And I suspect there are debates about this very issue going on around Bengals boards we could link to but I don't have the time to go looking for them right now. Again, he's a solid starter. But I think his stats are significantly boosted by AJ Green and some other pretty talented WRs with lesser names bailing him out. And I would not give him a huge contract that makes him a potential boat anchor down the road. The turnover angle is much more legitimate then the other nonsense you've been harping on. Once again, the contract is meaningless. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scine09 Posted July 11, 2014 Report Share Posted July 11, 2014 So its all about potential over production? According to you If Locker put of the stats and won like Dalton has somehow that would mean he has the ability to carry his team to the superbowl. It defies logic. Teams are winning the superbowl without the elite QBS you keep mentioning. It's all about what the QB does. You can usually see it just by watching and know if it's the QB or if it's the other guys. I know teams are winning the SB without elite QB's. I think Cincy can win with Dalton. In fact I think pretty much every starting QB with the exception of 5 that I can think of can win the SB right now in the right situation. The whole point is finding the QB that you can win with when your other players aren't up to par. I'm not talking about winning the SB. You know my feeling about that. I'm talking about keeping a poor team in contention. I don't think Andy Dalton can do that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 11, 2014 Report Share Posted July 11, 2014 It's all about what the QB does. You can usually see it just by watching and know if it's the QB or if it's the other guys. I know teams are winning the SB without elite QB's. I think Cincy can win with Dalton. In fact I think pretty much every starting QB with the exception of 5 that I can think of can win the SB right now in the right situation. The whole point is finding the QB that you can win with when your other players aren't up to par. I'm not talking about winning the SB. You know my feeling about that. I'm talking about keeping a poor team in contention. I don't think Andy Dalton can do that. I get that. my point is the guys that can keep a poor team in contention for many years are basically HOF caliber QBs. Of course every team wants one of those guys but you don't throw away a guy like Dalton in favor of playing the draft crap shoot. Back on track though. Anyone who wouldn't take Dalton over Locker based on their NFL careers to date is nuts. There isn't a valid argument to suggest otherwise. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Face Posted July 11, 2014 Report Share Posted July 11, 2014 If Locker put up the numbers Dalton has in his first three years you and others would be calling Jake a bonafide franchise QB worth a long term contract. The hypocrisy here is absurd. I started a thread last week basically asking if anyone thought Locker could put up 4000 & 30 this year & it was pretty much pushed aside as being completely unrealistic. Now half of the posters wouldn't trade him for a guy who did 4300 & 33. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scine09 Posted July 11, 2014 Report Share Posted July 11, 2014 I get that. my point is the guys that can keep a poor team in contention for many years are basically HOF caliber QBs. Of course every team wants one of those guys but you don't throw away a guy like Dalton in favor of playing the draft crap shoot. Back on track though. Anyone who wouldn't take Dalton over Locker based on their NFL careers to date is nuts. There isn't a valid argument to suggest otherwise. Of course. And I don't think there's anyone besides a certain poster whose username begins with an "r" that would disagree. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
abenjami Posted July 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2014 Someone should post this same poll on another team's thread. I'm guessing the results would be almost unanimous in favor of trading Locker for Dalton. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scine09 Posted July 11, 2014 Report Share Posted July 11, 2014 Someone should post this same poll on another team's thread. I'm guessing the results would be almost unanimous in favor of trading Locker for Dalton. It would be heavily weighted in Dalton's favor. The only reason that anyone would vote for Locker would be the same reasons as people posted on here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.