Jamalisms Posted July 10, 2014 Report Share Posted July 10, 2014 The larger point, Prag, was how damn smart I am and how little I don't know. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 10, 2014 Report Share Posted July 10, 2014 One thing is for sure, with inclusive ambassadors like you and Prag around who are resistant to any conversation that it's not beyond reproach and no changes should even be considered or given the benefit of discussion....well, it's no wonder soccer has been the "sport of the future" in North America since I first heard that in 1975. Well, that and the fact that it's boring. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamalisms Posted July 13, 2014 Report Share Posted July 13, 2014 The favorite won every game from round of 16 on, many of which went to OT and PKs. So much for luck. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IsntLifeFunny Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 Did anyone ever say luck mattered more than skill? Was Germany lucky that Argentina missed several easy looks? Yep. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pragidealist Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 They both missed some easy looks and yes one poster was implying that Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschool Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 I think you are missing something here Prag. Hardcore fans are not who the leagues and networks care about attracting. Our interest is already a given. It's all about the casual fans as they make up a much larger demographic. scoring and big plays are the surest way to attract casuals. Most NBA fans don't understand zone vs man defense. Most NFL fans can't tell the difference between 2x2 and 3x1 offensive sets. Most MLB fans don't understand the intricacies of running the bases. And last but not least, most soccer fans have no idea which tactics are being used in a match. It's all about scoring across all of the leagues for the casual fan which is why you should care that soccer has a reputation for being boring. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pragidealist Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 The interest and understanding is growing. Those calling it boring are not giving it a shot. They won't until they understand it better Sports are not about scoring. Otherwise nba would be widely more popular. Sports are about exciting plays and moments. Soccer has a plethora of those moments even on a 0-0 game. It's why Brazils humiliation was actually rather boring with a total of 8 goals but Germany's final win was thrilling. Those that can't see that aren't really looking yet. There is enough growth now - I don't feel the existence and relevance of sport depends on converting them. It now depends more on getting those watching EPL to support MLS, IMO Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschool Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 The interest and understanding is growing. Those calling it boring are not giving it a shot. They won't until they understand it better Sports are not about scoring. Otherwise nba would be widely more popular. Sports are about exciting plays and moments. Soccer has a plethora of those moments even on a 0-0 game. It's why Brazils humiliation was actually rather boring with a total of 8 goals but Germany's final win was thrilling. Those that can't see that aren't really looking yet. There is enough growth now - I don't feel the existence and relevance of sport doesn't depend on converting them. It now depends more on getting those watching EPL to support MLS, IMO You made my point for me. If a fan is interested in learning more about soccer and looking past the lack of scoring then they aren't really a casual fan anymore. These people make up a small percentage of the fanbase for all sports. Why do you think Football is king in the U.S? It's made for TV and the plays take 5-10 seconds. It's perfect for bunch of casual fans with short attention spans who just want to see highlight plays. Why do you think the NFL has done everything in its power to raise scoring and excitement? Do you think they want to alter the game for the hell of it? Why did the NHL add shootouts to the regular season games? why do you think the NBA is full of offensive stars like Melo who play little to no defense? It's all setup to attract non-hardcore fans and its about revenue pure and simple. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pragidealist Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 You made my point for me. If a fan is interested in learning more about soccer and looking past the lack of scoring then they aren't really a casual fan anymore. These people make up a small percentage of the fanbase for all sports. Why do you think Football is king in the U.S? It's made for TV and the plays take 5-10 seconds. It's perfect for bunch of casual fans with short attention spans who just want to see highlight plays. Why do you think the NFL has done everything in its power to raise scoring and excitement? Do you think they want to alter the game for the hell of it? Why did the NHL add shootouts to the regular season games? why do you think the NBA is full of offensive stars like Melo who play little to no defense? It's all setup to attract non-hardcore fans and its about revenue pure and simple. They are trying to increase those moments. These so called casual fans get into sports because of friends, hype on TV and media attention, The same reasons hoards of these fans flock to the us World Cup games. Nfl can be just as boring with its time outs and commercials. NBA fights with bringing dramatic plays as scoring becomes routine. More us ppl watched us World Cup than the nba finals/ why ? Not because of just national pride or it would be common in all international events. Friends, media hype, exposure, etc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pragidealist Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 Bottom line is that interest and enjoyment of the game is already happening. Evidenced by tv deals for mls and World Cup, increases mls attendance and expansion of teams. The problem is a lot of fans are watching EPL and not mls. For us soccer to take the next step mls needs to win that group over and attract in those that enjoy the game but have not yet clicked into following the pros Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 It may be growing but the World Cup gives a false sense for the rate of growth. The World Cup as an event has grown up big in North America but, in relative terms, there's little relationship that resonates between that and interest that goes beyond it. The die hards will continue to be dire hards and the "new" fans are already mostly gone. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pragidealist Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 I have no idea what the World Cup does. I hope it gets more of those who enjoy soccer in the us into the mls. I know many fans of the sport who have not embraced the mls. That is the group that fuel growth. Untapped reservoirs of support before worrying about the casual fan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamalisms Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 Growth will be fueled by maintaining the 12-24 year old group that is following soccer already. It will be helped if MLS is a big part of that engine because it would fuel more soccer on TV and such, which furthers a growth cycle. It would also, in theory, help with player development if the MLS continues to attract more and more quality players. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pragidealist Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 In order to promote development the US needs a stronger domestic league. Aside from the EPL, most of each national team's players play in their own league. One writer called it create a crucible for player development. The Us started 7 players this year from MLS. It has to be so. Only so many players can make it in the big leagues of soccer. It takes not only great skill and dedication but luck. The pure volume of players that want to get into the EPL or Bundisliga make the changes difficult. There is a large degree of hype and luck. Besler and Yedlin are all of a sudden getting looks by the EPL, Italian League, and Bundisliga. These two players didn't all of a sudden become good enough? They were showcased and did well against top level talent. The EPL has a large percentage of English players yet England didn't get out of the group. Their relatively small population gets a greater shot and chance to test themselves than any nationality in the world outside of Germany. Germany was dropping as a world soccer power until the revampted their domestic league. Their domestic league is still where most of their players currently play is defintely where they originally developed. The next generation of soccer players needs that high level of competition in the MLS and it needs to further develop its academies. Because the truth is that it is that league that will give the US guys the best shots at success and most chances to compete at a high level. In order for that to mean something, the MLS talent needs to improve. For the talent to improve, (aside from the academies) it's about money. I am fine with DP program that helps keep the teams competitive but the overall salary of players needs to increase so those DP's are truly special the "base" or "average" player level is better. For that to happen- it will be about US support and value of MLS. The more money put in, the more money that can go to players and team academies. The better the players and academies the better the competition and development of US talent. The better teh developemnt of that talent will equal better US soccer success world wide and that will lead to more US players being coveted by the big teams. Most people want players on Championship teams now but that model is a bit backwards. (Hopefully it will be simultaneous) But right the best thing we all that love the sport can do for soccer - is to support MLS as much as possible. That will improve the brand, quality, and product going forward. So I am less concerned about convincing CTF to like soccer. No offense to him, but who cares? There are enough soccer fans (Jamal, Oldschool, REo, etc) that I know that love the sport but have not clicked into the MLS. My dad is one of them. Instead they tune into the EPL and call the MLS an inferior product (which it is) but fans will watch college football and basketball. Fans will follow local minor league baseball teams. It doesnt take believing that the MLS will ever reach the EPL to support the league. It just takes a love of the sport and an investment of time into its players and teams. I think that is happening. I see more interest in MLS than I have in awhile. Dempsey and Bradley coming back help a lot. They bring much needed name recognition. The success of Beckerman, Besler, Yedlin and others also helps as it shows the quality that is there. And then the new expansion teams bringing in Xavi, DAvid Villa, Kaka, and Robinho also help... as does bring in Defoe and other names from the international pool of players. But in the end- that what interests me more in terms of what the World Cup can bring to the US. Then its up to the MLS to have a product good enough on teh field to entertain. I think it does that- but at that point it doesnt' really matter what I think... It matters what others think when they see games. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschool Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 Quick question. Who doesn't agree that soccer is growing in popularity in the U.S.? I'm simply arguing that it has a long way to go before its thought of as a major professional sport. Some of that is due to the fact Soccer wasn't invented by us and we have a complex as a Nation when it comes to that sort of thing. Secondly the NFL, MLB, NHL, and NBA are are pinnacles of their respective sports. I have a hard time watching MLS when I know from firsthand experience that the EPL and the South American leagues have way more talent and better quality play. MLS has to address this if it wants to complete with the other pro sports leagues in America. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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