Syria became a perfect political football for President Obama

[Guest]

[Starkiller]

I'm not saying that makes it legal, just not unprecedented.

The moral argument is that if Syria isn't punished for using chemical weapons then they will continue using chemical weapons.

[IsntLifeFunny]

Clinton did it at least twice

And we all know two wrongs make a right.

Lord help me. My point was not that ALL conservatives are racist, and therefore the criticism of Obama stems from that. Perhaps my language betrayed me a bit. I'm talking about the very far right here. Indicating that otherness is a factor isn't the same thing as accusations of racist. There is a difference and I'm more interested in what I perceive to be an often unconscious psychological response. 

 

But don't put words in my mouth, because racist is the word you use. 

 

But I can point out several moments when his "otherness" was a factor. The birther movement. Romney's 47% comments. 

 

I was responding in particular to the WSJ article's assertion that Obama wants to "weaken America." Why would that ever be his agenda? 

 

I know there are a lot of people who are legitimately opposed to Obama--you bring them up. Right now, I am actually one of the people who voted for him who is extremely disappointed as my post in this thread and in the thread about drone strikes that I started indicate. You bring those people up--I wasn't talking about them. 

 

My point is that there has been an ideological response to Obama that has fueled many far right conservatives and that there is an innate aggression or even hostility that many people harbor that does come from his otherness. It is a factor--to believe that we are somehow in a post racial society where people don't even have feelings centered around race is foolish. 

 

Again, my own post: "there are a lot of highly intelligent Conservative responses to Obama out there, somewhere I'm assuming. I'm assuming." 

 

But time and again what I see linked to, cited, or posted is dribble like this WSJ shit, which is what I was reading and responding to. But implying that otherness, race, and (yes) even blackness contribute to our ideas of Obama is not the same thing as making an accusation of racism and attributing it as a cause for phantom critiques (ie the ones I see that I mentioned above, that are not real) is hardly out of line. 

Bink, you're an intelligent person, but your tone is constantly demeaning to conservatives. It was the entirety of the post with a summation of 'I assume there is a good argument somewhere, but all I hear is bullshit and it's because of his 'otherness' (ie being black) that all I hear is bullshit'. It's utter crap, my friend. People don't hate him because he's black. Some do, but they are the minority. They hate him because he's A. A politician. B. A liberal. C. A liar. D. Incompetent.

[Starkiller]

And we all know two wrongs make a right.

It doesn't, but that doesn't take into account preventing future uses of chemical weapons. That's the point.

[Guest]

And we all know two wrongs make a right.

Bink, you're an intelligent person, but your tone is constantly demeaning to conservatives. It was the entirety of the post with a summation of 'I assume there is a good argument somewhere, but all I hear is bullshit and it's because of his 'otherness' (ie being black) that all I hear is bullshit'. It's utter crap, my friend. People don't hate him because he's black. Some do, but they are the minority. They hate him because he's A. A politician. B. A liberal. C. A liar. D. Incompetent.

 

Again, not saying that all conservatives hate him because he is black. I acknowledge that "otherness" is part of a larger conversation.

 

But here's the thing. I'm tired of the bad arguments being made by the largest and most vocal group of conservatives. If my tone was demeaning it is because they deserve it. I am all for respecting good ideas, but I won't respect bad ones. That's why I'm going after pro-war liberals. 

 

But all of this shoddy journalism being passed off as and accepted as the norm? These are the loudest conservative voices. And it doesn't do well for them. It drips with toxicity. The party needs to change and is. The place it has turned to post Obama, however, is pretty terrifying. 

[Starkiller]

The right is locked into anti-Obamism. Every candidate who isn't sufficiently anti-Obama gets attacked by Fox News viewers and primaried by a Tea Party nut.

I'm just hoping that the GOP resets itself after 2016. Not that they were good in the Bush years, but at least they weren't totally crazy.

[Guest]

The right is locked into anti-Obamism. Every candidate who isn't sufficiently anti-Obama gets attacked by Fox News viewers and primaried by a Tea Party nut.

I'm just hoping that the GOP resets itself after 2016. Not that they were good in the Bush years, but at least they weren't totally crazy.

 

It's true. Sometimes I think--remember when Bush was considered crazy? And I laugh. Democrats have gone through periods like this too. Republicans will experience a come back when they ditch the far right crazies ruling the roost right now. 

[IsntLifeFunny]

Again, not saying that all conservatives hate him because he is black. I acknowledge that "otherness" is part of a larger conversation.

 

But here's the thing. I'm tired of the bad arguments being made by the largest and most vocal group of conservatives. If my tone was demeaning it is because they deserve it. I am all for respecting good ideas, but I won't respect bad ones. That's why I'm going after pro-war liberals. 

 

But all of this shoddy journalism being passed off as and accepted as the norm? These are the loudest conservative voices. And it doesn't do well for them. It drips with toxicity. The party needs to change and is. The place it has turned to post Obama, however, is pretty terrifying. 

Again, not saying that all conservatives hate him because he is black. I acknowledge that "otherness" is part of a larger conversation.

 

But here's the thing. I'm tired of the bad arguments being made by the largest and most vocal group of conservatives. If my tone was demeaning it is because they deserve it. I am all for respecting good ideas, but I won't respect bad ones. That's why I'm going after pro-war liberals. 

 

But all of this shoddy journalism being passed off as and accepted as the norm? These are the loudest conservative voices. And it doesn't do well for them. It drips with toxicity. The party needs to change and is. The place it has turned to post Obama, however, is pretty terrifying. 

I can agree with most of this. I'm just tired of the left painting with such a broad stroke when it comes to these issues. You've got to remember that the loudest voices are usually the most extreme and usually do not represent the average person's beliefs in most situations.

[Guest]

I can agree with most of this. I'm just tired of the left painting with such a broad stroke when it comes to these issues. You've got to remember that the loudest voices are usually the most extreme and usually do not represent the average person's beliefs in most situations.

 

For sure. 

[ctm]

The right is locked into anti-Obamism. Every candidate who isn't sufficiently anti-Obama gets attacked by Fox News viewers and primaried by a Tea Party nut.

I'm just hoping that the GOP resets itself after 2016. Not that they were good in the Bush years, but at least they weren't totally crazy.

 

It won't be much different when Hillary is elected.

[Starkiller]

It won't be much different when Hillary is elected.

Sadly, I suspect you are right. They were honestly pretty crazed when Bill was in office. That was just child's play compared to now, though if Newt had won the government shutdown who knows how far they would have gone.

[OILERMAN]

Off-topic here, but why do you like that stock market has been going up? For people like you & me, who are in accumulating stage and buying shares with the new money, rather than selling them it is not a good thing.

 

Yea you're right. My 401k is the biggest thing I have and I really like watching it grow while the market is going up because it can really jump on good weeks......

 

But while I'm buying funds on Vanguard I get pissed as the prices keep going up and up so fast when the market is doing well. As long as you dollar cost average I guess it doesn't matter though

[Starkiller]

The market will probably drop soon now that the current federal budget runs out at the end of this month and the debt ceiling is looming just afterwards.

[OILERMAN]

The market will probably drop soon now that the current federal budget runs out at the end of this month and the debt ceiling is looming just afterwards.

 

That's what everyone thought last time but the markets pretty much ignored it

[headhunter]

Tell me again why are we supplying the rebels with weapons?