When did rednecks start championing their historic enemies?

[IsntLifeFunny]

2 hours ago, T-RAC said:

 

Did I read too much into those comments? It's possible. But it sounds like they're saying the US is defining capitalism by its actions as it goes, and Trump is racist therefore capitalism is racist.

 

That's ridiculous. But I don't want to put words in anyone's mouth and maybe that's not what they meant.

 

Definitely not what I meant. My comment had nothing at all to do with Trump. 

[pat]

5 hours ago, T-RAC said:

Oh. You didn't mean 'Capitalism' as defined by textbooks and dictionaries and economists. You meant DISASTER 'Capitalism' as defined by Canadian author and social activist Naomi Klein.

 

Real life ≠ making up strawman definitions of words in an attempt to paint with a broader brush. That's what Rush Limbaugh did in the 90s to try to demonize the word 'liberal'. It's Orwellian bullshit.

Naomi Klein is a major scholar.

[pat]

@T-RAC the point is that the reason the GOP donors are complicit with Trump's racism is because the constant shock of his racism sweeps policies like the massive tax break off the news cycle.  That's more or less exactly Naomi Klien's thesis -- that governments at the behest of wealthy interests intentionally harm the general public in order to implement self-serving structural change.

 

"Fair and Balanced Fox News" is Orwellian.

 

"Disaster Capitalism" is right to the point, ask someone in Puerto Rico or Iraq what they think of the "Reconstruction" in progress.

[T-RAC]

11 hours ago, patsplat said:

Naomi Klein is a major scholar.

 

She may have an endowment but she's a journalist/activist, not a scholar. She's actually a college drop out.

 

10 hours ago, patsplat said:

 

"Fair and Balanced Fox News" is Orwellian.

We agree.

 

10 hours ago, patsplat said:

@T-RAC the point is that the reason the GOP donors are complicit with Trump's racism is because the constant shock of his racism sweeps policies like the massive tax break off the news cycle.  That's more or less exactly Naomi Klien's thesis -- that governments at the behest of wealthy interests intentionally harm the general public in order to implement self-serving structural change.

 

"Fair and Balanced Fox News" is Orwellian.

 

"Disaster Capitalism" is right to the point, ask someone in Puerto Rico or Iraq what they think of the "Reconstruction" in progress.

Her thesis seems very conspiratorial. She's connecting a lot of dots, and she's shedding some light on some bad stuff but her larger point falls flat. She cherry picks world events to portray a strawman portrait of capitalism.

 

There's a lot of corruption out there and yes, politicians are opportunistic by nature. This is true in the US just as it is in the the rest of the world. So god bless Naomi Klein or any other journalist that uncovers something shady. But I don't buy a secret cabal pulling the strings or a grand psychological scheme as the driving force in our government or economy. I don't buy it, whether we're talking about big business CEOs or lizard demon pedophiles. 

 

 

[pat]

4 minutes ago, T-RAC said:

 

She may have an endowment but she's a journalist/activist, not a scholar. She's actually a college drop out.

 

We agree.

 

Her thesis seems very conspiratorial. She's connecting a lot of dots, and she's shedding some light on some bad stuff but her larger point falls flat. She cherry picks world events to portray a strawman portrait of capitalism.

 

There's a lot of corruption out there and yes, politicians are opportunistic by nature. This is true in the US just as it is in the the rest of the world. So god bless Naomi Klein or any other journalist that uncovers something shady. But I don't buy a secret cabal pulling the strings or a grand psychological scheme as the driving force in our government or economy. I don't buy it, whether we're talking about big business CEOs or lizard demon pedophiles. 

It's not actually the CEOs, it's the strategy consultants.  Follow what's going on with McKinsey & Company - they are involved in some shady shit from promoting opiods to Saudi dissidents:

 

How We’ve Reported on the Secrets and Power of McKinsey & Company https://nyti.ms/2GSeq27

 

Call it what you want.  I have a friend who worked there, and they understand power on a pathological level.  She was having a problem with her flight and her boss looked over and told her to cry.  She couldn't do it and missed the flight.  A couple days later, she got back in the office.  "Next time are you gonna cry?" he asked.  Yep, lesson learned.

 

They work fast, they know how to get things done, and there is no shame.  Market manipulation happens.

 

 

 

[Legaltitan]

T_RAC I understand your point very well and I really am not disagreeing with you about pure capitalism.

 

But we can do the same thing with other "isms". Arguing from your point of view, I could argue that communism has never failed because it has never been implemented as such. All of the "communist" systems that failed did so because they weren't true communist systems. 

 

It's kind of like the "no true Scotsman" argument.

 

"Capitalism doesn't defend on race/class divisions! Those are impediments to capitalism."

 

"But what about the United States and other countries?"

 

"Well that's not true capitalism."

 

I think the point you are making is correct. Pure optimal capitalism would eschew any and all artificial barriers to maximum efficiency.

 

But in the real world it hasn't turned out that way. The capitalists have become intent on holding on to the capital, and to do so frequently employ racial/class divisions to make sure this happens.

 

Which, bringing everything full circle, is exactly what Marx said. And Marx would say true Communism has never been tried because the proper condition precedent has never existed prior to its implementation. That condition precedent being hyper-capitalism. For Marx, Communism could not be imposed from the top down, but would naturally arise from the bottom up, but only at the point went hyper-capitalism had totally taken hold.

 

Sorry about that tangent, but I found it interesting as I was typing how all these threads sort of tied together.