japan Posted April 8, 2015 Report Share Posted April 8, 2015 I just said I have nothing against Payton personally. I just don't think he's a very good coach and think Brees is the reason for his success. In fact to be honest with all the talent that New Orleans has had over the years, particularly playing in a fairly weak division, the fact that he has missed the playoffs 3 times in 8 years is really inexcusable. When you have that much talent and an elite QB you should be in the playoffs on a yearly basis, like the Colts, Patriots and Broncos are. Like legal said, who were the great WR's that New Orleans had? They won the SB without Graham so you can discount him. A level-headed person can see it is a combo of OC and QB. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scine09 Posted April 8, 2015 Report Share Posted April 8, 2015 Like legal said, who were the great WR's that New Orleans had? They won the SB without Graham so you can discount him. A level-headed person can see it is a combo of OC and QB. The Saints were loaded for years at WR. He's thrown to Joe Horn, Marques Colston, Devery Henderson, Lance Moore, Jeremy Shockey in addition to have security blankets at RB in Reggie Bush and Darren Sproles to dump the ball off to. I don't even care though about his WR's my argument has always been that great QB's make great WR's. Which is why I'm perfectly fine with the Titans WR corps. Offensive talent was never an issue in New Orleans. How did New Orleans, with all the talent that they had, miss the playoffs in the worst division in NFL history last year? How did they go back to back years in 2007 and 2008 missing the playoffs? If Payton is such a guru? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
japan Posted April 8, 2015 Report Share Posted April 8, 2015 The Saints were loaded for years at WR. He's thrown to Joe Horn, Marques Colston, Devery Henderson, Lance Moore, Jeremy Shockey in addition to have security blankets at RB in Reggie Bush and Darren Sproles to dump the ball off to. Offensive talent was never an issue in New Orleans. Ha ha ha. Loaded? All of those guys mentioned are middle level or fringe WRs. Shockey was a shell of himself. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scine09 Posted April 8, 2015 Report Share Posted April 8, 2015 Ha ha ha. Loaded? All of those guys mentioned are middle level or fringe WRs. Shockey was a shell of himself. Read my edited post. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Face Posted April 8, 2015 Report Share Posted April 8, 2015 Oh did I misread you talking about me slobbering over Mariota's sack? The sensitive one in all this seems like you. Do me a favor and head over to this thread and read what people are saying about the latest Mariota comments. There's good and there's bad. That's it. Sorry, but we all know about Simms' history. As soon as that comment was posted I immediately remembered what he said about Locker. Again, you're sick of the Mariota love from OUTSIDE this forum. Stuff on him is everywhere. During our conversation two positive stories on him popped up in the Mariota thread: 1. Mayock says he's his top QB 2. Whiz's latest comments. And WHAT has happened since then? People are tearing it apart. Oldschool is wondering what is so special about this spatial memory shit already and is saying it all overblown ... and that's fine. Should I do like CMJ and post a bunch of names running into the room to disprove it? Nah, let people debate. Just because people don't like Mariota ... it doesn't mean they love Mett. And just because people don't love Mett it doesn't mean they love Mariota. Yeah, you're being a hypocrite here. You called me a jackass personally, I talked about a group of you slobbering on a QB's nuts, big difference. Who cares about that though, a perfect example of what I'm talking about is the Mayock thread that just started. People were talking about Mayock moving Mariota ahead of Winston so SoCal & Cyrus write, sarcastically, "Mayock's a fanboy" & "smokescreen!". We all know what they mean, because the big thing with you guys is making fun of anyone who thinks Wiz may be talking Mariota up for ulterior purposes. This is no different than what I did & it goes on constantly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
japan Posted April 8, 2015 Report Share Posted April 8, 2015 The Saints were loaded for years at WR. He's thrown to Joe Horn, Marques Colston, Devery Henderson, Lance Moore, Jeremy Shockey in addition to have security blankets at RB in Reggie Bush and Darren Sproles to dump the ball off to. I don't even care though about his WR's my argument has always been that great QB's make great WR's. Which is why I'm perfectly fine with the Titans WR corps. Offensive talent was never an issue in New Orleans. How did New Orleans, with all the talent that they had, miss the playoffs in the worst division in NFL history last year? How did they go back to back years in 2007 and 2008 missing the playoffs? If Payton is such a guru? This is the standard for if a guy is a good coach or not? A guy who has a 79-43 record and has gone to the playoffs 5 of his 8 years coaching (a team that had only been to the playoffs twice before he arrived) had a bad year and missed the playoffs last season? Laughable. I would swear this was shtick, but I know you too well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scine09 Posted April 8, 2015 Report Share Posted April 8, 2015 This is the standard for if a guy is a good coach or not? A guy who has a 79-43 record and has gone to the playoffs 5 of his 8 years coaching (a team that had only been to the playoffs twice before he arrived) had a bad year and missed the playoffs last season? Laughable. I feel like we're back to the Shanahan argument that we had way back. I'd love to see Payton without an elite QB. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Face Posted April 8, 2015 Report Share Posted April 8, 2015 Ha ha ha. Loaded? All of those guys mentioned are middle level or fringe WRs. Shockey was a shell of himself. Colston was much, much better than a fringe WR. He was probably on the 2nd tier for years. They also always had a very good OL, and Sproles is a killer catching the ball. I'm pretty sure if Rob Ryan took over as HC there wouldn't be a drop off at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
japan Posted April 8, 2015 Report Share Posted April 8, 2015 I feel like we're back to the Shanahan argument that we had way back. I'd love to see Payton without an elite QB. Silly. So, we are down to Bill Parcells as the only great coach. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
japan Posted April 8, 2015 Report Share Posted April 8, 2015 Colston was much, much better than a fringe WR. He was probably on the 2nd tier for years. They also always had a very good OL, and Sproles is a killer catching the ball. I'm pretty sure if Rob Ryan took over as HC there wouldn't be a drop off at all. I agree. But Sproles and Graham came after they won the SB. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scine09 Posted April 8, 2015 Report Share Posted April 8, 2015 Silly. So, we are down to Bill Parcells as the only great coach. There's been many great coaches. I don't believe that Shanahan or Payton were two of them. There are a select few coaches in the history of the league who could consistently win without a QB. Almost any coach in NFL history can win when he has an elite level talent playing the position. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
japan Posted April 8, 2015 Report Share Posted April 8, 2015 There's been many great coaches. I don't believe that Shanahan or Payton were two of them. There are a select few coaches in the history of the league who could consistently win without a QB. Almost any coach in NFL history can win when he has an elite level talent playing the position. I give up. This has turned into a strawman argument. I never maintained that Payton was one of a 'few select coaches in the history of the league who could consistently win without a QB.' Who the hell knows? The guy is an excellent coach and a great offensive mind who was smart enough to believe in Brees when he was 'done' and tailored an offense around his skills. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scine09 Posted April 8, 2015 Report Share Posted April 8, 2015 I give up. This has turned into a strawman argument. I never maintained that Payton was one of a 'few select coaches in the history of the league who could consistently win without a QB.' Who the hell knows? The guy is an excellent coach and a great offensive mind who was smart enough to believe in Brees when he was 'done' and tailored an offense around his skills. You wanna know how many current NFL coaches could win with Brees in his prime? 32. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
japan Posted April 8, 2015 Report Share Posted April 8, 2015 You wanna know how many current NFL coaches could win with Brees in his prime? 32. Brady too, right? Aikman too, right? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
big2033 Posted April 8, 2015 Report Share Posted April 8, 2015 You called me a jackass personally, I talked about a group of you slobbering on a QB's nuts, big difference. Who cares about that though, a perfect example of what I'm talking about is the Mayock thread that just started. People were talking about Mayock moving Mariota ahead of Winston so SoCal & Cyrus write, sarcastically, "Mayock's a fanboy" & "smokescreen!". We all know what they mean, because the big thing with you guys is making fun of anyone who thinks Wiz may be talking Mariota up for ulterior purposes. This is no different than what I did & it goes on constantly. Oh so calling a larger group of people something is better than calling one person something? Nice try. What did I say in that thread you're talking about? I'll wait. Meanwhile 9 Nines is being petty and talking about math. And they're teasing because it's mostly deserved. They are bringing up actual comments and people sometimes haven't been rebutting them: Bringing up previous quotes, countering with another perspective ... people are just saying "smokescreen" at times, something that's lazy and really just ignores the comment and doesn't debate it at all. You could call any comment smoke until it happens, it's not adding to the conversation. If you're going to just dismiss things without backing it up or explaining the logic you're going to be made fun of. Sorry. From Simms comments ... I mentioned something about his previous comments and boom someone had two links backing it up. From Whiz' comments today, @ made an interesting point that the comments were similar and generic and I agreed that that was a good point. I didn't call him a hater ... I said he made a good point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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