Guest Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 So I posted the NCAA handbook on transgender athletes and it debunks the argument of competitive advantage. I don't know what else I can do. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 The NCAA doesn't regulate MMA Bink. Team sports =/= MMA. MMA gives out money, large sums, to the winners of their fights. This is fighting, and just because you have a more all-enveloping idea that transgenders fully become the sex they wish to be, they genetically are still what they were born. Any suppression of hormones or surgeries is just to appease aesthetics and chemical balances. The idea that they are something else derives from their mentality. This is an exploitable area whether you believe it to be or not. You can't prove/disprove whether someone truly believes they are another sex. In life, there's a vast difference between a boy that was raised, and believed himself to be, a girl vs someone who made the decision 3 years ago. Similarly, there'd likely be a vast difference between the two in a boxing ring. Most people would put money on guy number 2 there. However, they're both transgender. Would they both be ok to fight women in MMA? How transgender does one have to be to fight women? How long? Again, what would the ground rules be? Is a penis ok? How long do you have to be recognized as a woman? Do you have to have family/friends verify this? Can you train MMA as a male for 10 years, undergo some hormone therapy for a year, then enter the woman's division? If it lead to a belt in 3 fights and $30,000 payouts three times a year, do you really think some people wouldn't give it a go? How manly is too manly to be a woman, exactly? Where's the cutoff (pun intended)? If you're really so concerned over this being a non-issue, spell out the specifics. I'd love to hear exactly when/how it's fair for guys to beat up women. Again, this mindset precludes that transgender women are MEN. The NCAA rule book is important because it establishes a precedent for allowing transgender athletes to compete and it dispels the competitive argument you are making. The argument you are making above is a ridiculous oversimplification. You can establish rules that allow transgender athletes to compete--there is a precedent. If you see the above quote from the NCAA handbook it comments on sex verification procedure and what they are typically used for. The scenario you are pushing as dangerous precedent is incredibly unlikely. To me, it's a woman fighting a woman. A doctor and the governing body of the sport decides that. She was able to get a license as a woman. This doesn't match up with what you are picturing in your head--I know that--but it doesn't match up with reality. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercalius Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 So I posted the NCAA handbook on transgender athletes and it debunks the argument of competitive advantage. I don't know what else I can do. You can stop defending something that is in itself an exploitable, gray area. Again, that is for NCAA sports. How would it apply to MMA? If you don't believe it's exploitable, you need to watch more MMA. You already have men who cut 20 lbs in a few days to fight in certain divisions just to have the potential of an upper hand. If you don't see the potential for a serious problem, I don't know what to tell you. This is the lead singer of a punk band, Against Me. He's now a transgender, but has been wanting to become a woman for awhile now. Would it be fair to put him in the octagon with a woman, straight up? Honestly? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 Again, I acknowledge that it is a gray area. 1) It is largely unlikely that this will be exploited in the way in which you are insinuating. I think transgender is a choice one makes for purposes other than winning MMA. 2) Even if I acknowledge that someone will exploit it, that's why you involve doctors, that's why you have a governing body making regulations. I'm not going to make a call on individual cases, but an organization would be in place to do so, JUST LIKE the NCAA. If a transgender woman passes these tests and then cuts weight or does what her fellow competitors does to get an advantage it's all gravy. 3) I don't think it's fair. The female MMA competitor would beat the shit out of him because he is a punk singer, not someone training to be MMA. The underlying premise of your point is that somewhere along the line someone will want to become transgender to gain a competitive advantage in the sport. This is bullshit. According to the NCAA handbook on transgender athletes, science supports that the competitive advantage goes away because of hormone therapy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 Similarly, a basic reading of the culture in which we live pretty much debunks that possibility. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinman Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 Again, this mindset precludes that transgender women are MEN. Well they are.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 http://prommanow.com...-in-womens-mma/ “I’d like the world to know that I deserve the right to compete in women’s MMA. I have trained hard for this, sacrificed relationships, invested money to attempt to accomplish my goal of being the best female MMA fighter I can be. I am a woman. A woman who happens to fall into the category of post operative transsexual. Just like there are black women, lesbian women, disabled women, and other types of women… there are trans women. We are just another type in the category of women.” “There is a misconception out there that post operative transsexual women have an automatic advantage over women born with complete female anatomy. This is simply not true. The general public needs to be aware of this and we are hoping to shed light on this misconception.” “I can not wait to fight again. And I would like to take my skills to the highest levels and promotions that I can.” Although this issue is new to MMA, it is not a new issue. There are precedents. The Olympics have had to address the issue of transgender athletes being allowed to compete, and in 2004 the International Olympic Committee (IOC) ruled that individuals who underwent sex reassignment after puberty could compete, but only under the following conditions: Surgical changes must have been completed, including external genitalia changes and removal of gonads. Legal recognition of their assigned sex must have been conferred by appropriate official authorities. Hormone therapy — for the assigned sex — must have been given for long enough to minimize any gender-related advantages in sport competitions, a period that must be at least two years aftergonadectomy. According to reports the 37-year-old Fox Fallon meets those conditions. If it’s good enough for the Olympics, should it be good enough for MMA? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stranger Posted March 7, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 http://espn.go.com/mma/story/_/id/9023730/transgender-fighter-fallon-fox-faces-review-mma-license "Florida State Boxing Commission officials are reviewing the mixed martial arts license of Championship Fighting Alliance women's featherweight tournament participant Fallon Fox after learning she is a transgender female." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
headhunter Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 http://prommanow.com...-in-womens-mma/ “I’d like the world to know that I deserve the right to compete in women’s MMA. I have trained hard for this, sacrificed relationships, invested money to attempt to accomplish my goal of being the best female MMA fighter I can be. I am a woman. A woman who happens to fall into the category of post operative transsexual. Just like there are black women, lesbian women, disabled women, and other types of women… there are trans women. We are just another type in the category of women.” “There is a misconception out there that post operative transsexual women have an automatic advantage over women born with complete female anatomy. This is simply not true. The general public needs to be aware of this and we are hoping to shed light on this misconception.” “I can not wait to fight again. And I would like to take my skills to the highest levels and promotions that I can.” Although this issue is new to MMA, it is not a new issue. There are precedents. The Olympics have had to address the issue of transgender athletes being allowed to compete, and in 2004 the International Olympic Committee (IOC) ruled that individuals who underwent sex reassignment after puberty could compete, but only under the following conditions: Surgical changes must have been completed, including external genitalia changes and removal of gonads. Legal recognition of their assigned sex must have been conferred by appropriate official authorities. Hormone therapy — for the assigned sex — must have been given for long enough to minimize any gender-related advantages in sport competitions, a period that must be at least two years aftergonadectomy. According to reports the 37-year-old Fox Fallon meets those conditions. If it’s good enough for the Olympics, should it be good enough for MMA? MMA is not an olympic sport Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 MMA is not an olympic sport I didn't say it is, I'm saying the NCAA and the Olympics set precedent for inclusion of Transgender athletes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WG53 Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 MMA is not an olympic sport Boxing is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinman Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 MMA and UFC more so is a business, the Olympics and NCAA are not; in the same sense. Dana White doesn't have to answer to a competition committee to the extent the other 2 do. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 MMA and UFC more so is a business, the Olympics and NCAA are not; in the same sense. Dana White doesn't have to answer to a competition committee to the extent the other 2 do. He also can choose to allow transgender women to compete. The promotion has postponed the event in solidarity, which clearly indicates the CFA supports her ability to participate. "We stand 120,000 percent behind Fallon," Championship Fighting Alliance CEO Jorge De La Nova said. "She's a female. She's a very sweet girl. There's a lot of money on the line for her, and she's performed very well. We're going to give her a couple of weeks to see how this thing turns out." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinman Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 Do you know how many MMA orgs fall by the wayside... It can fight in CFA or any of the leagues IT wants too.. Dana White will not soil the UFC or any of his smaller leagues with this crap. Ask Fedor how tight a ship Dana runs.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 Do you know how many MMA orgs fall by the wayside... It can fight in CFA or any of the leagues IT wants too.. Dana White will not soil the UFC or any of his smaller leagues with this crap. Ask Fedor how tight a ship Dana runs.. Dana White has indicated that she's waiting to see if she is approved by the state and he basically said she need to beat someone that matters first. If she doesn't make it to UFC it's because she isn't as good as the other competitors. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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