Guest Posted July 24, 2014 Report Share Posted July 24, 2014 This is fair and I can go with Givins for the reasons listed but a case can be made for Slaughter and Hill LOL@ Jeffiries Lol @ you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 24, 2014 Report Share Posted July 24, 2014 Yes and proof you could stick any stiff into the run and shoot and he would produce stats Well except for Tony Jones and Willie Drewrey who did nothing on alot of snaps when guys got hurt or needed a blow. Mike Aqui we barely knew ya. Also, the R&S is just another form of spread fofense so in saying any loser receiver could be successful in it you're essentially saying every receiver should be able to put up numbers like the Oilers guys did. Smart. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMJ Posted July 24, 2014 Report Share Posted July 24, 2014 Oh baby! OMAN OWNED! Five arrows to the ass! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 24, 2014 Report Share Posted July 24, 2014 Haywood Jeffries, as Oilerman noted, dropped way too many passes and dropped them at the worst times. His poor route running also led to some turnovers. Let me show you something: Jeffires: 330 catches, 4216 yards, 30 TD's Hill (2 years): 148 catches, 2083 yards, 9TD's Givins: 279 catches, 3938 yards, 28 TD's Thanks, CTF Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 24, 2014 Report Share Posted July 24, 2014 CMJ could you imagine the numbers he would have put up if he hadn't of been such a poor route runner with such bad hands! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Face Posted July 24, 2014 Report Share Posted July 24, 2014 Oh and Oilerman the "possession" receiver you called Haywood was the Oilers fastest man entry int he NFL's fastest man competition. When he was drafted he was one of the fastest guys on the league. He didn't lose his elite speed until a few years in. Sounds like you were too busy watching Troy Aikman and have no idea wtf was going on. Was Haywood that fast? I always thought he was a taller, body position type jump ball guy. He was our red zone guy though, the R&S was not a good red zone offense because of all the smaller guys though I think the whole "you can't pound it in" was overused, we ran very well with power at times with Lo White & Gary Brown. But anyway, Haywood was deadly on the fade stop in the red zone & one of the earlier guys I remember excelling on those plays where the QB purposely throws behind the WR. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OILERMAN Posted July 24, 2014 Report Share Posted July 24, 2014 You are seriously being dense these days. Yea I'm the one being dense. The CJ poll was like 48-2(the other guy admitted he voted with you as a joke) and Jefferies is in 3rd in this poll. And besides you busted in here with your "Johnny" schtick and had your facts wrong, of course you're getting called out. Haywood was usually singled in man coverage, that's why he was targeted the most. And this comes from Rod Woodson, I read a detailed article of him explaining how teams played the run and shoot. They bracketed the inside guys and singled the outside guys. That's why Haywood caught so many quick outs, hitches and fades. He had two seasons where he caught a pass longer than 50 yards. His 90 catch 913yd season is on par with Eddie getting 300 carries and less than a 1000yds rushing. A volume of targets against man coverage in a passing offense doesn't equate to the best WR. Does Eddie George's volume of carries and yards equal quality play, and better player than RBs in the same era with less yards? Of course not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OILERMAN Posted July 25, 2014 Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 Was Haywood that fast? I always thought he was a taller, body position type jump ball guy. He was our red zone guy though, the R&S was not a good red zone offense because of all the smaller guys though I think the whole "you can't pound it in" was overused, we ran very well with power at times with Lo White & Gary Brown. But anyway, Haywood was deadly on the fade stop in the red zone & one of the earlier guys I remember excelling on those plays where the QB purposely throws behind the WR. You watched him I presume? Did you think he was fast? Of course he wasn't fast. He had super leaping ability and did run a fast 40 time at the combine, which was very inaccurate back then. I also remember him at the NFL's fastest man contest. He was so out of his league it wasn't even funny. I tried to find something on it but can't find a damn thing. I remember him actually being mocked he was beaten so badly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OILERMAN Posted July 25, 2014 Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 BTW, Moon and Jeffiries basically invented the stop fade Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
titanicbomb Posted July 25, 2014 Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 A couple of points: - Givins playoff statistics are significantly better than Haywood's in catches, yards and TD's. He was clearly Moon's go-to guy in the postseason and when we really needed a catch in a big situation. Givins to me was tough as nails and Haywood in the clutch was such a disappointment. - Pointing to Jeffries getting more yards than Givins in the regular season doesn't prove he was better. We have to then evaluate who was targeted more and look at stats like Yards per target to see who was more efficient. My guess would be it's easily Givins when you factor in targets. Drew Hill probably was #1 in this metric. - There may not be a stat for this, but my recollection is that Haywood definitely caused more INT's with poor route running. - Drew Hill was at the end of his career basically in the RnS years. Yet he was almost as productive as Haywood. That to me tells me Hill was a better WR... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OILERMAN Posted July 25, 2014 Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 A couple of points: - Givins playoff statistics are significantly better than Haywood's in catches, yards and TD's. He was clearly Moon's go-to guy in the postseason and when we really needed a catch in a big situation. Givins to me was tough as nails and Haywood in the clutch was such a disappointment. - Pointing to Jeffries getting more yards than Givins in the regular season doesn't prove he was better. We have to then evaluate who was targeted more and look at stats like Yards per target to see who was more efficient. My guess would be it's easily Givins when you factor in targets. Drew Hill probably was #1 in this metric. - There may not be a stat for this, but my recollection is that Haywood definitely caused more INT's with poor route running. - Drew Hill was at the end of his career basically in the RnS years. Yet he was almost as productive as Haywood. That to me tells me Hill was a better WR... Well said Hill was also 34 or 35 by the time they started playing the run and shoot. The Oilers needed a guy like Michael Haynes back then, who played for Atlanta's run and shoot. He had 50 catches for 1100 yards at 22 yards per catch! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMJ Posted July 25, 2014 Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 Oman will be waiting for CTFs response. Albeit under his bed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OILERMAN Posted July 25, 2014 Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 Oman will be waiting for CTFs response. Albeit under his bed. You, Iowa and CTF got the votes rolling in on Haywood! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaddKarma Posted July 25, 2014 Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 People waxing romantic about Jeffires cleary never watched him play every week. He was no speedster, not even close. Great leaper, didn't do shit with it because he had the hands of blind brick layer with the beer shits. He was imensley scared of contact and dropped many balls because of the dreaded "foot step" syndrome he suffered from. On the other side, Hill, Givens, and even Duncan were fearless for the most part. Hill single handedly stretched the field double covered usually and opened up Haywood's side of the field for his 5 yard outs. Because there were often only 5 protecting Moon was forced to fire it quick, Hills routes took more time and were designed to back off the safeties if memory serves. BTW, those 5 yard outs turned into 4 yard outs on 3rd and 5 because he was scared to take the ball into contact. The question was who was the best Oilers r&s wr IYHO. Not who had one big year or who scored more TDs in run away games. Im cool with people picking Jeffries. He just never passed the "eye ball" or big game test for me or some others. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Face Posted July 25, 2014 Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 Well said Hill was also 34 or 35 by the time they started playing the run and shoot. The Oilers needed a guy like Michael Haynes back then, who played for Atlanta's run and shoot. He had 50 catches for 1100 yards at 22 yards per catch! Great call on Haynes, I remember he caught a bomb on the first play in the first preseason game ever in the Georgia Dome, and he was exactly the type of guy we needed back then. While I think the R&S limited the downfield game to a degree we also had a bunch of possession type WR's, which was a shame because Warren threw it downfield beautifully. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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