Kirk Cousins

[wiscotitansfan]

No mention of how that would almost guarantee another Whiz QB carousel?

[JLocker10]

  

Somehow the scouts and coaching staff have to look into a crystal ball and figure it out. If they see Cousins fitting the scheme real well and having the attributes to become a better than average QB and he is a better option than anyone they might consider in the 2nd round I'm OK with making the trade. You also can't get carried away with some spotty bad play by a young QB. They all have those moments. Luck is a good example of that. He threw for over 300 yards against the Pats but had 4 ints. The Pats were an average pass defense as well so it wasn't like he was facing an elite defense. Point being it takes time. We could easily draft a guy (even in the 1st round) who is no better than Cousins in his first handful of starts.

 

we should be setting our sights higher than that. that's not good enough jmo. i want a great qb

 

i don't think cousins sucks, but he hasn't done much to make me think he's a whole lot more than just average

[Guest]

We need to get a perspective here. Cousins has had good and bad games. He has had what, a handful starts in the NFL and thrown 200 passes. So quite honestly anyone saying he sucks as well as anyone saying he is great hasn't a clue. At this point you are basically evaluating him with guys who have zero games in the NFL coming out of college.

Now the thought process typically is that the guys with zero games are always better. But the reality is about 80% or more of those guys coming out that get drafted will never sniff Fitzpatrick like success.

Now since you brought up the Colts and Chiefs game. Smith threw for 378 yards, 4 TDs in that game. Yea, good example. I guess the Chiefs needed a QB who could throw for 500 yards.

The same Colts team got dismantled by the Patriots in the next game with Brady throwing for less than 200 yards and zero TDs.

 

 

I agree 100% but again, the evaluation process isn't easy and teams miss far more often that they hit on QBs. You will always think some college kid coming out is going to be the answer to a prayer but the reality is they usually aren't once they get on the field. I'm not super high on Cousins by any means. But since the probability is very good we may not get that shot at a guy in the 1st we like, maybe Cousins isn't a bad option based on what might be available in the 2nd or later.

Somehow the scouts and coaching staff have to look into a crystal ball and figure it out. If they see Cousins fitting the scheme real well and having the attributes to become a better than average QB and he is a better option than anyone they might consider in the 2nd round I'm OK with making the trade. You also can't get carried away with some spotty bad play by a young QB. They all have those moments. Luck is a good example of that. He threw for over 300 yards against the Pats but had 4 ints. The Pats were an average pass defense as well so it wasn't like he was facing an elite defense. Point being it takes time. We could easily draft a guy (even in the 1st round) who is no better than Cousins in his first handful of starts.

Also, there is something to be said about how a QB fits the system. Matt Flynn was walking the streets after getting the ax with Seattle, Oakland and the Bills. GB takes him back and he filling in for an injured Rodgers plays in a number of games as the starter and ends up with an 86 QB rating. Not saying Flynn is the answer to anything but it shows some guys simply play better in the right system.

 

I can see your point here, but it all rests on a very big if

 

" If they see Cousins fitting the scheme real well and having the attributes to become a better than average QB and he is a better option than anyone they might consider in the 2nd round I'm OK with making the trade." 

 

I just don't see this as likely at all. If we are assuming Cousins is as much of a dice roll as, say another QB taken in this year's draft we roll the dice with the cheaper option so that we can get a defensive player in the second. I'm not advocating that a 4th rd. pick is going to come in and be Russel Wilson, or even develop into a starter. But Cousins has shown us nothing--and like it or not 3 games and two years in another team's system is information--information that makes him look like more risk than reward at this point. 

[Aramis]

  

We need to get a perspective here. Cousins has had good and bad games. He has had what, a handful starts in the NFL and thrown 200 passes. So quite honestly anyone saying he sucks as well as anyone saying he is great hasn't a clue. At this point you are basically evaluating him with guys who have zero games in the NFL coming out of college.

Now the thought process typically is that the guys with zero games are always better. But the reality is about 80% or more of those guys coming out that get drafted will never sniff Fitzpatrick like success.

Now since you brought up the Colts and Chiefs game. Smith threw for 378 yards, 4 TDs in that game. Yea, good example. I guess the Chiefs needed a QB who could throw for 500 yards.

The same Colts team got dismantled by the Patriots in the next game with Brady throwing for less than 200 yards and zero TDs.

 

Yea Smith did most of his damage in the first half. Second half he was shit and with the chance to drive them in to FG range for the win he couldn't. 

 

Stats don't just make a QB. You tell me if Smith would shake off 3 INT's and have the same performance Luck did. By all means, please keep this thread going and tell me that if you give Cousins more games he'll prove himself to be a good QB. 

 

By the way, that Colts team had nothing besides Luck this year. I'll also remind you it was 29-22 in the third quarter. Two good QB's going at it and the deciding factor was the team who could run the ball and play better defense won. 

[Jd8]

I can not understand the love for this guy.

[Number9]

There are plenty of quarterbacks that would make me happy aside from Manning, Rogers, and Brady. Another team's untested backup who has under performed is not one of them. Here is why I'm personally out on Cousins:

• He's a product of misplaced hype. He was a part of the national conversation before he played a snap because the Redskins drafted him after betting the farm on RGIII. At the time two narratives developed, Shanahan's a genius or the Skins wasted a draft pick. If any other team had picked him he'd be just another 4th pick, laboring away to become a backup. So the very fact that his name is even being tossed around is because of media hype, especially the media in Washington. He played well in a few preseason games, having a fantastic game in one. This was against backups and was totally meaningless. 
• His performance has been weak. For every dropped pass you may have seen, I saw plenty of under thrown passes, or passes thrown behind receivers. The Redskins have a strong run game and an offense designed for efficiency, and yet in it Cousins looked very inaccurate and panicked. He missed a lot of solid reads and often didn't deliver the ball where he should. He folded under pressure and was terrible on third down. He just didn't look like he had it, at all. The guy is just not a starting caliber NFL quarterback. He was bad in that Cowboys game. Garcon bailed him out, but he should have had a Josh Gordon/Calvin Johnson type game because Cousins was constantly misplacing throws. The second half was critical because that was where Cousins really "shined." His inaccuracy was a big part of the reason the Redskins blew such a lead against the Cowboys in the fourth quarter. I remember on a critical late drive he threw three passes to the dirt. It seemed like his best drives were ones that benefited from turnovers. 

To conclude, he hasn't even looked good. He's looked rough and like a serious work in progress. He didn't have games nearly as good as Matt Flynn did, and he has never performed as well in a real game as he did in the preseason his rookie year. The guy isn't a starting caliber NFL quarterback, and when he does get the chance to start he wouldn't go anywhere fast and is no better than Ryan Fitzpatrick. Giving up the kind of draft pick he will cost, even if it is a second rounder only, won't be worth it. He is nothing more than a product of hype, a product of the Robert Griffin effect--and drafted by any other team he wouldn't even be in the conversation. 

 

PASS.

Okay. I went and watched his final drive, 1:16 left. I saw some passes I couldn't believe. OMG. He made some throws that I am surprised were not called grounding.

[Apocalypse]

Yea Smith did most of his damage in the first half. Second half he was shit and with the chance to drive them in to FG range for the win he couldn't. 

 

Stats don't just make a QB. You tell me if Smith would shake off 3 INT's and have the same performance Luck did. By all means, please keep this thread going and tell me that if you give Cousins more games he'll prove himself to be a good QB. 

 

By the way, that Colts team had nothing besides Luck this year. I'll also remind you it was 29-22 in the third quarter. Two good QB's going at it and the deciding factor was the team who could run the ball and play better defense won. 

so Smith suffers because he didn't turn the ball over 3 times to prove he can come back from that?? What kind of ass backwards logic is that?

[Aramis]

so Smith suffers because he didn't turn the ball over 3 times to prove he can come back from that?? What kind of ass backwards logic is that?

 

Good QB's can handle adversity. Smith couldn't deal with it in the second half and lost, where as Luck did and won. How is that ass backwards?

[Apocalypse]

Good QB's can handle adversity. Smith couldn't deal with it in the second half and lost, where as Luck did and won. How is that ass backwards?

you're right, it's his fault half his team got hurt and Bowe stepped out of bounds. IF ONLY HE COULD HANDLE THE ADVERSITY.

[UpstateTitansfan]

you're right, it's his fault half his team got hurt and Bowe stepped out of bounds. IF ONLY HE COULD HANDLE THE ADVERSITY.

The winning TD also came on a fumble that beyond fortuitously hit the center in the helmet and bounced right into Luck's hands...Luck played virtually the same exact game the next week, but against a much better and healthier team.

[Aramis]

you're right, it's his fault half his team got hurt and Bowe stepped out of bounds. IF ONLY HE COULD HANDLE THE ADVERSITY.

 

It's like you don't even know what the word means.

 

As for Bowe, it doesn't even factor because of the horrid time management and the grounding throw on that drive. 

[Apocalypse]

It's like you don't even know what the word means.

 

As for Bowe, it doesn't even factor because of the horrid time management and the grounding throw on that drive. 

you're right, the play that would have likely won them the game didn't matter.....I can't take you seriously.

[Aramis]

Look, I simply asked a hypothetical question that no one cared to address, which was if the tables were turned would the game have played out the same way? The fact Luck didn't fold or his team didn't fold under three picks says it all. Yes the Colts got some breaks, but shit happens. It took a near perfect game from Smith to simply be close and the thing is, if the stats were flipped the Chiefs would've never been in it. There's NO FUCKING WAY Alex Smith goes into Indy and throws a couple of picks and shrugs them off, in all fairness not many QB's would. 

 

And yes, I would take Smith over Fitzpatrick and an injury prone Locker. However, I know Smith has his limitations and we likely aren't going anywhere with him. No shit there's no comparison between Luck and Smith and that's the point. 

 

The factor we're talking about here, gentlemen, is referred to by many as the "It" factor. I hate calling it that, because WTF is "it"? But it's those intangibles that separates the greats from the just good enough's. That's why I'd rather take my chances in the draft at a QB in hopes that I land someone with those intangibles.

[Apocalypse]

The winning TD also came on a fumble that beyond fortuitously hit the center in the helmet and bounced right into Luck's hands...Luck played virtually the same exact game the next week, but against a much better and healthier team.

IT'S BECAUSE TOM BRADY IS SO ELITE, HE WILLED THE RUNNING GAME!!!

[Aramis]

you're right, the play that would have likely won them the game didn't matter.....I can't take you seriously.

 

Look at the drive chart below. Smith holds on to the ball all day on 2nd down instead of throwing out of bounds and makes a horrid ground throw. Now it's third and forever. It should've never come down to Bowe. Throw it out of bounds, come back on 3rd down to pick up field goal yardage or a potential first down to keep the drive going. 

 

If you can't process this, consider the feeling mutual.

 

1. (4:21) (Run formation) 11-A.Smith pass short right to 82-D.Bowe to KC 45 for 25 yards (42-C.Lynch).
2. 1-10-KC 45(3:43) (Run formation) 11-A.Smith pass short middle to 82-D.Bowe to IND 42 for 13 yards (41-A.Bethea; 20-D.Butler).
3. 1-10-IND 42(3:06) (Shotgun) 32-C.Gray right tackle to IND 39 for 3 yards (98-R.Mathis; 99-R.Jean Francois).
4. 2-7-IND 39(2:30) (Shotgun) 11-A.Smith pass incomplete short right [90-C.Redding]. PENALTY on KC-11-A.Smith, Intentional Grounding, 10 yards, enforced at IND 39.
5. 3-17-IND 49(2:25) (Shotgun) 11-A.Smith pass short middle to 22-D.McCluster to IND 43 for 6 yards (23-V.Davis).
6. Two-Minute Warning
7. Timeout #3 by KC at 02:00.
8. 4-11-IND 43(2:00) (Shotgun) 11-A.Smith pass incomplete deep right to 82-D.Bowe.