Anyone know much about sprinkler/irrigation systems?

[N/A]

I have an 8 stations system now that covers about half my yard.  Have about an acre and a half not covered with about 20-30 trees.  Had a quote for a normal sprinkler system to cover it and it was about $9K to $12K. 

 

I passed on it last Summer but with a Texas drought in the forecast, I looked into it again.  A sprinkler guy, who isn't cheap, was doing some repairs for me, and I asked him how much he would charge.  When I told him, I want to do it just to save the trees, he recommended just doing bubblers. HE walked my yard and said he could do all the rest of my yard with bubblers that would cover all the tree's root systems for about $1200 to $1500 (twelve hundred to fifteen hundred.) 

 

I am confused why it so much cheaper (almost 10% the price.)  I did not ask him, because I did not want him to think I thought it was good deal.  

 

My question: He would run pipes etc. just as he would have to do with sprinklers.  It seemed the only thing he would be saving would be sprinkler heads, no?   And that would not make difference?

 

Why would bubblers, over same area, be almost 1/10th price of a normal sprinkler system?  Anyone know? 

[Cyrus]

Hard to say without knowing all the specifics (site plan), but the cost savings comes across the board: labor, automatic irrigation valves, lateral lines, pop up spray / rotors and mainline addition. (pressurized lines). There's a lot of trenching and material cost in laying some type of full coverage overhead spray / rotor system. As for bubblers, it's significantly easier since your GPM (gallons per minute) is much lower (about 2 GPM per tree) and depending on any friction loss from long runs, you can use significantly less valves / lateral lines. It's much simpler to install overall and there's far less labor / material.

There's also the possibility that the previous contractor might have had to upgrade your irrigation controller. (from 8 to 16 or more).

[tinman]

You don't want to spend thousands on a sprinkler system for a area full of trees.. Sure tons of companies will do the work for you. Best not lose the number though cause roots will bust the pipes within a few years..

 

Sprinkler systems use pressure to pop the heads and you have to use a more rigid (breakable) pipe system.. BUBBLERS on the other hand are more of a trickle system and can be done with more or a rubber tubing which will bend and move with roots.. No high pressure in the system makes it much more durable and less parts to maintain..

 

I see Cyrus has touched on this already.. Guess I should have look beyond the OP..

[N/A]

Thanks. Question about water usage.

 

If a bubbler uses less water, can they keep the water usage the same per my existing stations or would that increase cost of more demanding piping from higher pressure?  

 

I am on a water well with a submerged pump and I had a sprinkler guy engineer the amount of water per station, on the existing system, to pull almost as much water as the well can produce.  As I recall, my pump will do about 40 gallons per minutes, and the sprinkler guy made each station pull around 36 give or take for distance, number of turns etc. That way the well pump cycles about every 30 minutes while the sprinkler system is on (he timed the pump cycle on each station and tweaked accordingly.)

 

Before I had a sprinkler guy do that, the sprinkler system was not using enough water and my well pump was short cycling (every 3-5 minutes) while the sprinkler system was on.  The short cycling burned up a switch near my pressure tank and the well people said it would also burn up the pump over time and they advised me to get a sprinkler guy to do wha tI described above.

 

I assume if a bubbler uses less water per time period than spray heads, the guy can just add more bubblers per stations to make it the same. Or would that entail more costly pipping?

 

Also, do you know of some part for a well system to guard against short cycles.  The sprinkler guy, who proposed the bubblers, said there was some $200 part to add to a well, around the pressure tank as I recall he  said, to keep it from short cycling but it seems the well people would have advised me on that when they replaced the switch if there is such a part.  Do you know?

[chef]

Was going to chime in but Cyrus and Tin covered it pretty well.  If you like and don't mind non-Texas answers, I have a good buddy upcountry here in Maui (cool dude from Amsterdam) who knows this stuff inside and out it would seem. 

 

 

BTW 9s, I've been meaning to PM you about DDD.  Was waiting for the stock split to settle.  It ran away from me so hard on a covered strangle that I rolled a full year for %s and have hardly been concerned with it since.  It's at 60% of its recent highs... straight down more or less lately.  For me, fine as long as it's in a wide range I set up.  A couple insiders have dumped stock lately. Never a great sign.

[Cyrus]

Thanks. Question about water usage.

If a bubbler uses less water, can they keep the water usage the same per my existing stations or would that increase cost of more demanding piping from higher pressure?

I am on a water well with a submerged pump and I had a sprinkler guy engineer the amount of water per station, on the existing system, to pull almost as much water as the well can produce. As I recall, my pump will do about 40 gallons per minutes, and the sprinkler guy made each station pull around 36 give or take for distance, number of turns etc. That way the well pump cycles about every 30 minutes while the sprinkler system is on (he timed the pump cycle on each station and tweaked accordingly.)

Before I had a sprinkler guy do that, the sprinkler system was not using enough water and my well pump was short cycling (every 3-5 minutes) while the sprinkler system was on. The short cycling burned up a switch near my pressure tank and the well people said it would also burn up the pump over time and they advised me to get a sprinkler guy to do wha tI described above.

I assume if a bubbler uses less water per time period than spray heads, the guy can just add more bubblers per stations to make it the same. Or would that entail more costly pipping?

Also, do you know of some part for a well system to guard against short cycles. The sprinkler guy, who proposed the bubblers, said there was some $200 part to add to a well, around the pressure tank as I recall he said, to keep it from short cycling but it seems the well people would have advised me on that when they replaced the switch if there is such a part. Do you know?

Not sure regarding well pumps, but the bubbler additions will likely require 2 new stations to your controller. My guess is that they'll split the amount of trees into two valves. If you have 30 trees w/ two bubbler heads per mature trees you'll end up witth 60GPM which will be split into two halves. If you need to, you can also modify or use bubbler heads that have less flow (.5GPM) and run the station twice as long thus requiring your pump to start/stop less often.

Also, bubblers are typically hard piped using PVC lateral lines. Drip irrigation using surface grade flexible piping. If the contractor said bubblers, I would expect the former, but you might want to make sure they didn't mean the latter. Even drip systems will use some degree of rigid PVC piping. If root control is an issue, you can talk to them (depends on tree, aggressive surface roots?). Keep in mind that piping is pretty sensitive to UV and they will deteriorate over time if exposed to the sun. Generally you want to make sure that they're under plant coverage or some type of bark mulch.

Also consider that drips typically requires more maintenance due to sediment in the system. You'll need to make sure that check your system from time to time to ensure that the filter is clean at the valve and that there are no points of failure at your emitters.

[N/A]

Thanks, it is piping I think because he talked about trenching and I pointed out that I have pipe in the area from an aerobic septic system line. He said he will just have his crew dig by hand near the septic lines. 

 

The trees are full size (not sure how much root growing they do) and I have never had a problem with the regular sprinkler system and it is in areas with as many or more trees and many of those trees went from planted trees to full live oaks while that pipe was there.

 

Do bubblers pop-up like sprinklers or are they always on yard (mowing problem and UV problem I would imagine, if so)?

[Cyrus]

Depends on the head, but they're typically above grade (not pop up). The UV won't be an issue for the heads. You will need to be careful not to mow over them but you can talk to them about different types of heads that are closer to at-grade. Just know that the closer they are to the ground, the more risk of sediment, especially if your soil doesn't drain quickly. But that may be more ideal if you're taking them out with your mower every week.

Live oaks are beautiful trees. Definitely worth keeping them alive. Just make sure that the water is able to reach the root zone (ask them this) and that you wouldn't just be throwing water at grade and having it drain off before entering your soil.

[tinman]

we tend to put these around the base of each tree buried slightly and run lines underground to each from a main line down the middle if it a row of trees.. Works great in orchards...

 

[N/A]

The guy wants me to take inventory of number of trees so he can quote an exact price.  He said it would be 1 to 4 bubblers (depending on tree size) around the trunks of each tree.    I am wondering will watering just at the trunk be enough for even large trees to get them through drought periods?  I never thought about it before - I guess trees in road medians and middle of commercial parking lots only have like 5 feet of dirt exposed around them with most of their root systems under concrete, so they could only receive water directly at their trunks even during rains, right?  So I guess it is enough? 

[Cyrus]

The guy wants me to take inventory of number of trees so he can quote an exact price.  He said it would be 1 to 4 bubblers (depending on tree size) around the trunks of each tree.    I am wondering will watering just at the trunk be enough for even large trees to get them through drought periods?  I never thought about it before - I guess trees in road medians and middle of commercial parking lots only have like 5 feet of dirt exposed around them with most of their root systems under concrete, so they could only receive water directly at their trunks even during rains, right?  So I guess it is enough? 

 

As the water percolates it will saturate the soil. Tree roots can be pretty expansive, especially for trees that were not previously irrigated. I don't think the tree will have a hard time finding the water.

[N/A]

Tree roots can be pretty expansive

 

What does expansive for roots mean?

[Cyrus]

What does expansive for roots mean?

 

Meaning that they cover a wide area particularly in terms of volume. They can be pretty deep and wide. The trees have been building a network of roots for some time in order to survive. I'm sure they'll be able to access water from the irrigation system.

[N/A]

Meaning that they cover a wide area particularly in terms of volume. They can be pretty deep and wide. The trees have been building a network of roots for some time in order to survive. I'm sure they'll be able to access water from the irrigation system.

 

 

Thanks.  I was worried that a larger root system would mean you had to water that larger area but you are saying by having large root system they are more adapted to the water they get - no need to water all of the root system? 

[Cyrus]

Thanks.  I was worried that a larger root system would mean you had to water that larger area but you are saying by having large root system they are more adapted to the water they get - no need to water all of the root system? 

 

Correct. You're really watering what's above the ground (think about the transpiration of the leaves). The root system is in place as a means of survival for the tree. It's basically "searching" for water and nutrients. All that matters is that the water is applied within that root zone so that the tree has access to it. A native Live Oak could have a root system that's beyond the canopy of the tree so you should have no issues.

 

I don't know the cost of water in your area, but if the tree is healthy there's no need to over-water it. You're really bringing in irrigation to supplement the water supply in case of drought / heat waves. It's OK for trees to be stressed from time to time. They're built to survive it. However what you need to be concerned with is if the water table drops suddenly/quickly from neighboring uses.