Jamalisms Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 Officially on ignore forever. Merc said it beter than me: I'm not the biggest fan of Superman on a level of principle. I find it's hard to relate or empathize to a character that is inherently just the "best" at everything and always has to be dumbed down or injured to even struggle in his comics Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OILERMAN Posted December 21, 2012 Report Share Posted December 21, 2012 Jamal is a big Clark Kent fan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamalisms Posted December 21, 2012 Report Share Posted December 21, 2012 A badass mother fucker in glasses? I can relate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMJ Posted December 21, 2012 Report Share Posted December 21, 2012 As long as they don't emo Superman into a Dr.Manhattan. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WG53 Posted December 21, 2012 Report Share Posted December 21, 2012 Yeah Superman is pretty lame. Too overpowered. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMJ Posted December 21, 2012 Report Share Posted December 21, 2012 He gets his ass whipped every comic! Aliens kick his ass. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercalius Posted December 21, 2012 Report Share Posted December 21, 2012 (edited) To make an argument regarding superheroes (and in a slight defense of Superman), pretty much all "great" stories come from the cliched Superman story - the unbeatable hero that we all know and love is not his typical, top-form, self. Let's use Batman as the primary example (Warning, my comic geek is about to show bigtime). Although he doesn't have super-powers, comic book minds have pretty much made him better than any mutant/cosmic entity over the last several decades. His unrivaled intellect, detective abilities, martial arts skills (even usually easily beating villains whose sole "powers" are combat oriented), and wealth of money to buy the gadgets his mortal self can't replicate have had him trump everything from common street thugs all the way to immortal, cosmic/celestial beings, which naturally seldom passes the bullshit test. He's Superman without the natural ability to fly and lift army tanks, but he always somehow has gadgets for that. That being said, like Superman, his "best" stories are the ones where he's always at a distinct disadvantage. The Dark Knight Returns - he's old, maybe too old to do what he once did. We see his battle with age throughout the story, it's a great way of making us second guess his ability to pull through the whole thing. Batman - Year One - He's new to the game. This is largely where Nolan's movies stem from. This is a guy who's just started his real training to becoming Batman. He doesn't have all of the technology and gadgets just yet, and a lot of the scenarios he walks into are unfamiliar. Cops and random street thugs still present problems. Nightfall - He gets his back broken. And prior to that, he'd been worn to exhaustion from recapturing every villain that had escaped Arkham Asylum. A huge physical setback and also the first time he'd ever really appeared to be "beaten" by a villain. Court of Owls - Someone/a group of people "know" Gotham better than he does, which goes against all that is Batman/Bruce Wayne. He has to come to reality that he isn't the omniscient entity in that city that he thinks he is before he can ultimately triumph. Even as just a human being, Batman's been so ridiculously amplified over the years that to tell a good story for him, you have to take something way. I love the character, but just from the short list above (I could add more - Long Halloween, Death in the Family, etc) you can see that much like Superman, he's reached the point where he, in perfect form, is a rarity in his comics. Because quite frankly, the legend's been built that no hero/villain can even touch a Batman in his prime - arguably even Superman included. Granted, tons of comics take this format. The "flawed" characters are always the most interesting. Watchmen, for instance, if boiled down to one defining point, is that the heroes are now enemies of the government - thus, even as powerful as they are, they have no true allies regardless of what they do. Marvel did an ok job of reinterpreting this with their Civil War saga awhile back, but it was no Watchmen. Preacher, probably my favorite comic, has the main character (with God-like powers) go against....yep, God, the one guy who is a bigger badass than he is. It's almost a cliched narrative. Regardless of the powers of the protagonist, the villain has to be better somehow, at least on paper, or have some trump card, to even make the story readable. After all, most folks wouldn't buy a comic where Batman punches out the robber in the first panel and all ends well in another normal night in Gotham. I get it, I really do, but my problem with Superman is just HOW ridiculous he is. Stronger than the Hulk, faster than the Flash, able to come back from death, even his weakness to kryptonite has been so revised over the years there's no way of knowing what it really does to him anymore. Heat vision? Check? Icy breath? Check. Able to hold a black fucking hole in his hands? Check. It just got/still gets so ridiculous it's SO hard to take him seriously. They've made him so powerful, not only does his existence undermine other superheroes whose primary powers aren't as good as his supplementary ones (When he beat the Flash in a race, I literally threw the comic down), but he's been made SO ridiculous in terms of meta-powers the ONLY "super" who can defeat him on a consistent basis is not a "super" at all - Batman. Ridiculous in its own right, but, at least it's good to see the underdog win. Whereas at least with a Batman, he always has the "he's human" fallback. Something easy to make him relatable - an illness, an injury, emotional problems, etc. It's just much harder to tackle Superman from a storytelling standpoint. Hopefully the movie is able to. I have faith that they will at least make a decent flick. Edited December 21, 2012 by Mercalius Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cenj Posted December 21, 2012 Report Share Posted December 21, 2012 I thought the Watchmen movie was so bad, I apologized to friends I convinced to come with me. I think at one point I started laughing out-loud in the theater at it's sheer awfulness. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercalius Posted December 21, 2012 Report Share Posted December 21, 2012 I thought the Watchmen movie was so bad, I apologized to friends I convinced to come with me. I think at one point I started laughing out-loud in the theater at it's sheer awfulness. What did you think was so bad about it? Serious question. I loved it. And did you read the comics before watching it? I know a film should stand up on its own, but I've heard that response from a few folks, but most of them had no knowledge/interest of the base material before they saw the film. Most folks who liked the comic that I talked to had the same opinion as me. Could be one of those things where I/we filled in the dull parts with what the comic provided. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
volntitan Posted December 21, 2012 Report Share Posted December 21, 2012 Not a comic book guy at all, but love the movies. Big Nolan fan...hasn't directed a bad movie, imo. On the other hand, I haven't see a movie Zach Snyder has made that I would consider very good. He is very much more style than substance. And sucker punch is one of the worse movies I've seen in a long time. Pragidealist 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pragidealist Posted December 21, 2012 Report Share Posted December 21, 2012 Yep - symder makes me a bit nervous Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NashvilleNinja Posted December 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 21, 2012 Yeah Superman is pretty lame. Too overpowered. It's a comic book character, Bob. ALL comic book characters are "overpowered" in some form. Look in the mirror if you need proof. Oh wait, nevermind. You're doing that already... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercalius Posted December 21, 2012 Report Share Posted December 21, 2012 Posted this awhile back but it's still a damn funny watch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NashvilleNinja Posted December 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 21, 2012 Posted this awhile back but it's still a damn funny watch. Isn't Doomsday Fulton from Might Ducks? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercalius Posted December 21, 2012 Report Share Posted December 21, 2012 I think so. Elijah Wood, Simon Pegg, Chris Hardwick, Mandy Moore, and Ron Howard all have cameos in there too Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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