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5 hours ago, Rogue said:

Watching it all again from the perspective of today's criticism is interesting. There's a lot of "just how the hell did that happen" moments that flat out wasn't complained about back then.  

 

Seriously, watch it all from the mindset of today's criticism.  If you assign the same standards of plot criticism, you'll realize there's always been "plot armor". 

Some of this was brought up in that final season. Of course Jon comes back to life! How the hell did the Hound survive!

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Well for anyone who cares to read this, here are my (lengthy) thoughts now that I’ve had a chance to sleep on it.   I’ll start by saying I'm not sure I've ever been more hyped for an episode

I loved the fact that Theon won his fight cause he has no dick. Haha

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53 minutes ago, OILERMAN said:

Some of this was brought up in that final season. Of course Jon comes back to life! How the hell did the Hound survive!

Well, those impossible moments happened in non-book seasons so we can easily dismiss those due to the obviously bad writing. But Samwell Tarly was wearing an official Night's Watch© Invisibility Cloak when the whole army of the dead walked right past him at the end of season 2, a book season.

 

See? Superior writing needs no plot armor at all, just handy winter fashion and a very still and quiet fat boy.

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4 minutes ago, OILERMAN said:

The biggest issue was time. Early on they had a lot of time for character/plot development

 

The last season especially was so rushed

That was their choice. The ending was awful even if understandable because they refused to make 2 10 episode seasons. 

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I still maintain the rushed time line did not happen in a vacuum. They say HBO did not pressure them. Ok fine but I doubt there wasn't some pressure. But at the very least I think everyone involved from actors to writers etc were burned out. If nothing else I feel like they limited the last two seasons b3cauwr the major players were totally ready to be done with the show and move on. It is amazing how they were able to hold everyone together for that long as it is. Other than the guy who played the mountain I don't think a single other character had to be replaced with a different actor. That is very remarkable given the huge cast. 

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10 hours ago, Rogue said:

It's interesting watching older episodes now.  As the story telling became weaker, it also brought about a hyper sensitivity scenes pretty unbelievable.  

 

Watching it all again from the perspective of today's criticism is interesting. There's a lot of "just how the hell did that happen" moments that flat out wasn't complained about back then.  

 

Seriously, watch it all from the mindset of today's criticism.  If you assign the same standards of plot criticism, you'll realize there's always been "plot armor". 

 

But the depth to the story made all that a non-factor....or rather, the lack of depth has made those same moments more criticisable today. 

 

Just an observation watching it again from today's perspective.  It's a noticeable thing, and only from the perspective of today. 

 

 

Which scenes are you referring to?  I'm not saying they don't exist, I just want to better understand your perspective.

 

4 hours ago, NashvilleNinja said:

Well, those impossible moments happened in non-book seasons so we can easily dismiss those due to the obviously bad writing. But Samwell Tarly was wearing an official Night's Watch© Invisibility Cloak when the whole army of the dead walked right past him at the end of season 2, a book season.

 

See? Superior writing needs no plot armor at all, just handy winter fashion and a very still and quiet fat boy.

Dude.  You don't know what you're talking about.  Just stop.

That scene was changed for the show.  If you don't like the "invisibility cloak", take it up with the show writers, not the book.  Anything else you got?

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7 minutes ago, CreepingDeath said:

Dude.  You don't know what you're talking about.  Just stop.

That scene was changed for the show.  If you don't like the "invisibility cloak", take it up with the show writers, not the book.  Anything else you got?

His point is that, whether from the book or not, it's a stretch of a scene that would be harrassed if it came out now.

 

But, yes, the reality is that a drop of dirt in a sea of pure water becomes hard to care about. But shovel after shovel is aggravating.

 

And, btw, which scene is more obnoxious?

 

1. Sam hiding poorly and not getting noticed anyway

 

2. Sam fighting an overwhelming number of undead beings that just walked on entire swaths of armies, getting knocked down and swarmed, living in that state for 20 minutes, then just lying down and crying while the battle continued?

 

Degree matters. They're not even on remotely the same level. Comparing then is hilarious.

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1 hour ago, CreepingDeath said:

Dude.  You don't know what you're talking about.  Just stop.

That scene was changed for the show.  If you don't like the "invisibility cloak", take it up with the show writers, not the book.  Anything else you got?

Ah, I see. So anything that might be iffy in the show just blame the show. But everything that's awesome credit GRRM.

 

Gotcha. But just instantly off the top of my head? How about Davos surviving getting blown into Wildfire Bay? Or the white walker not going after the other Night's Watch guy in the pilot episode? Or, the ultimate plot armor, Bran surviving the fall from the tall ass tower?

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1 hour ago, CreepingDeath said:

Which scenes are you referring to?  I'm not saying they don't exist, I just want to better understand your perspective.

 

There's several and I don't really remember them all, I did make comment last night to my wife that under today's criticism prism this show would have been criticized even back then.  

 

One of the more pointed ones was when Margery went into Tommen's room to secretly speak to him.  

 

 "How'd you get past the Kingsguard?", Tommen

 

" Kingsguard, he he", Margery. 

 

She just magically did.  

 

There's several fight scenes that were dramatized quite a bit and made in such a way to give the hero the win. 

 

Watch it all again yourself with the same criticism prism of today.  There's several instances you'll say, "oh yeah, that would have been nitpicked today" 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, NashvilleNinja said:

Ah, I see. So anything that might be iffy in the show just blame the show. But everything that's awesome credit GRRM.

 

Gotcha. But just instantly off the top of my head? How about Davos surviving getting blown into Wildfire Bay? Or the white walker not going after the other Night's Watch guy in the pilot episode? Or, the ultimate plot armor, Bran surviving the fall from the tall ass tower?

How did JFK survive WW2?  Holy shit, plot armor!!!!

 

How did you make it past infancy?  Plot armor!!!!

 

Please look up what plot armor actually means.

 

As for your "invisibility cloak" reference, here are links to the chapter summaries from the book if you're interested.

 

https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/A_Storm_of_Swords-Prologue

https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/A_Storm_of_Swords-Chapter_18

 

 

1 hour ago, Rogue said:

There's several and I don't really remember them all, I did make comment last night to my wife that under today's criticism prism this show would have been criticized even back then.  

 

One of the more pointed ones was when Margery went into Tommen's room to secretly speak to him.  

 

 "How'd you get past the Kingsguard?", Tommen

 

" Kingsguard, he he", Margery. 

 

She just magically did.  

 

There's several fight scenes that were dramatized quite a bit and made in such a way to give the hero the win. 

 

Watch it all again yourself with the same criticism prism of today.  There's several instances you'll say, "oh yeah, that would have been nitpicked today" 

 

 

 

That's true.  I had many complaints throughout the run of the show (in season 1 I was most disappointed in the lack of attention given to the direwolves and family swords).  Even some of the bigger acclaimed episodes didn't really hit the mark for me (Blackwater Bay, for example).  I like 'em, but wasn't blown away.  Hardhome was badass and totally a show invention that I loved.  

 

It was never perfect or near perfect.  It was really good and the story flowed well.  (Yes, I would get with other book readers to commiserate the lack of certain story threads.)

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20 minutes ago, CreepingDeath said:

How did JFK survive WW2?  Holy shit, plot armor!!!!

 

How did you make it past infancy?  Plot armor!!!!

No one ever accused GRRM of having a lazy imagination...

 

20 minutes ago, CreepingDeath said:

Please look up what plot armor actually means.

I know what plot armor means, dickhole. My point is that the fanboy whinging ass nerds need to pick a different, less overused criticism. Or, preferrably, just shut the fuck up. But hey, whinging ass nerds gonna nerd.

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37 minutes ago, NashvilleNinja said:

No one ever accused GRRM of having a lazy imagination...

 

I know what plot armor means, dickhole. My point is that the fanboy whinging ass nerds need to pick a different, less overused criticism. Or, preferrably, just shut the fuck up. But hey, whinging ass nerds gonna nerd.

Awww... Are you getting your feewings hurt when you get called out?  You come out insulting those that disagree with you and then can't take it when there's return fire?

Derp derp.  Shut the fuck up.  Gotcha, captain.

 

Tell me the difference between "plot armor" and simply surviving a dangerous situation.  Or do you think there's no difference?

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1 hour ago, CreepingDeath said:

Awww... Are you getting your feewings hurt when you get called out? You come out insulting those

You think talking down to someone like they're an idiot isn't insulting?

 

1 hour ago, CreepingDeath said:

that disagree with you and then can't take it when there's return fire?

Derp derp.  Shut the fuck up.  Gotcha, captain.

I'm fine disagreeing with someone as long as they're reasonable and not being an antagonistic bunghole.

 

1 hour ago, CreepingDeath said:

Tell me the difference between "plot armor" and simply surviving a dangerous situation.  Or do you think there's no difference?

Uh, Rambo at any given point in any of the films post-First Blood? I'd say he's fully adorned with it. Leia Poppins had on a plot gown at least in TLJ.

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7 hours ago, Legaltitan said:

I still maintain the rushed time line did not happen in a vacuum. They say HBO did not pressure them. Ok fine but I doubt there wasn't some pressure. But at the very least I think everyone involved from actors to writers etc were burned out. If nothing else I feel like they limited the last two seasons b3cauwr the major players were totally ready to be done with the show and move on. It is amazing how they were able to hold everyone together for that long as it is. Other than the guy who played the mountain I don't think a single other character had to be replaced with a different actor. That is very remarkable given the huge cast. 

You would be wrong. Hbo is on record saying they wanted full seasons. D&D are on record saying it was 100% thier decision to cut the episode count to 13 total for seasons 7 & 8. 

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