The Game of Thrones

[Rogue]

3 hours ago, oldschool said:

Drogon is worth 100 guards. She clearly wanted to be alone in the throne room. It was also obvious she had calmed down a little bit after her fiery speech and didn't view Jon as a threat. I do not have any issue with the way the scene was setup.

I didn't have a problem with it either.  I interpreted it as Drogon did not think Jon was a threat, and I don't think he was when he walked in.  He made the choice inside the Throne Room, not outside.  

 

Plus Dany had completely resigned herself that she could do no wrong (victory after advisers fell) and only she knew what was good.  A bit of arrogance that perhaps without those advisers, was the arc of her death.  

 

3 hours ago, oldschool said:

Greyworm not killing Jon after he commits the deed is worse and the writers knew it as they punked out and didn't show it.

This was pretty weak.  I don't think they even attempted to explain why they captured Jon instead of executing him immediately.  Who exactly were they waiting word from?   

 

I guess there was no body, so they couldn't know for certain she was dead, but they could've made some effort to explain that.  

 

 

Edited May 20, 2019 by Rogue

[Jonboy]

I didn't really take issue with anything in this episode prior to Dany's death. I thought it was all pretty well done. After that was a complete mess.

 

First off, it's inexcusable for us not see the immediate aftermath of Jon killing Dany. Do they really expect us to believe the Unsullied and Dothraki were suddenly willing to take prisoners? They were executing Lannister men in the streets moments before and now they're cool with letting Tyrion and Jon chill in prison? They are also kind enough to reach out to the other leaders and ask them to negotiate? Lol. No way.

 

The scene of them deciding on a King was truly terrible. I actually laughed out loud during part of it. It didn't feel like it belonged in this world at all. Maybe GRRM has no idea how he's doing to resolve this part yet, but D&D didn't even attempt to try and have it make sense. There are so many logical problems with the scene that I don't even know where to start. 

 

Now once they got there, I liked the small council scene. It was a great nod back to the old seasons. Bran continues to make no sense though. He just wants to find Drogon? Let them handle everything else? Brienne's scene with the book was touching and what she wrote fit both her and Jaime. 

 

I'm fine with where Arya, Sansa, and Jon ended up. It fits and makes sense for the characters. But Jon having to be exiled doesn't add up with the story they told. Grey Worm and the Unsullied leave so...who's to stop Jon from going back to Winterfell, especially now that the north is independent? And why are the other houses cool with the north being independent anyway? Dorne and the Iron Islands would almost certainly take issue there and want the same. Again, that King-selection scene was just awful.

 

I really think they could've written something great if they had just taken their time...and if they didn't have the time, they should've given the writing to someone who did.

[oldschool]

2 minutes ago, Jonboy said:

I didn't really take issue with anything in this episode prior to Dany's death. I thought it was all pretty well done. After that was a complete mess.

 

First off, it's inexcusable for us not see the immediate aftermath of Jon killing Dany. Do they really expect us to believe the Unsullied and Dothraki were suddenly willing to take prisoners? They were executing Lannister men in the streets moments before and now they're cool with letting Tyrion and Jon chill in prison? They are also kind enough to reach out to the other leaders and ask them to negotiate. 

 

The scene of them deciding on a King was truly terrible. I actually laughed out loud during part of it. It didn't feel like it belonged in this world at all. Maybe GRRM has no idea how he's doing to resolve this part yet, but D&D didn't even attempt to try and have it make sense. There are so many logical problems with the scene that I don't even know where to start. 

 

Now once they got there, I liked the small council scene. It was a great nod back to the old seasons. Bran continues to make no sense though. He just wants to find Drogon? Let them handle everything else? Brienne's scene with the book was touching and what she wrote fit both her and Jaime. 

 

I'm fine with where Arya, Sansa, and Jon ended up. It fits and makes sense for the characters. But Jon having to be exiled doesn't add up with what the story they told. Grey Worm and the Unsullied leave so...who's to stop Jon from going back to Winterfell, especially now that the north is independent? And why are the other houses cool with the north being independent anyway? Dorne and the Iron Islands would almost certainly take issue there and want the same. Again, that King-selection scene was just awful.

 

I really think they could've written something great if they had just taken their time...and if they didn't have the time, they should've given the writing to someone who did.

I agree with a lot of this. While the concept of a council of lords choosing the king is fine; the execution was bad. As for Jon I put that on poor writing. I get why he had to be exiled. He was the rightful hier to the thrown and if he stayed behind he would be used by those who wanted him to take the crown. They had to send him away to break the wheel which I fully believe is what GRRM intended. Westeros can't move on from Targ rule and the vicious game of thrones with Jon around.

[Jonboy]

1 minute ago, oldschool said:

I agree with a lot of this. While the concept of a council of lords choosing the king is fine; the execution was bad. As for Jon I put that on poor writing. I get why he had to be exiled. He was the rightful hier to the thrown and if he stayed behind he would be used by those who wanted him to take the crown. They had to send him away to break the wheel which I fully believe is what GRRM intended. Westeros can't move on from Targ rule and the vicious game of thrones with Jon around.

They let the prisoner just decide, lol. Who better than Bran! He's got stories! 

 

Agree on Jon, too. They just completely bungled the execution of it.

[reo]

1 hour ago, TitanDuckFan said:

If I was at Lucasfilm I'd be hollering to cancel the contract with D&D.

 

If they have good writing, they're fine... they just didn't have good writing these past seasons.

 

The visuals and everything were great.

[MadMax]

First off, for the most part, I think the finale was fine.  There were a couple wtf moments, high on my list is that Jon was able to question the prisoner (Tyrion) without question or Dany being informed.  Oh well.  I blame it all on the fact that that everything in the last few seasons has been rushed, story lines truncated.  Hell's bells, if the pace was the way it was in the early seasons, the last two episodes alone, would have taken an entire season.  And that's what's missing to me.  Everything is rushed.   And who can blame them?  There have to be some serious stamina issues.  This show has been going on for years.  I'm sure everyone is sick of doing it.

[TitanDuckFan]

LoT.

Lame of Thrones.

 

What a disgrace.

15th century political correctness run amok.

[IsntLifeFunny]

4 hours ago, oldschool said:

Drogon is worth 100 guards. She clearly wanted to be alone in the throne room. It was also obvious she had calmed down a little bit after her fiery speech and didn't view Jon as a threat. I do not have any issue with the way the scene was setup. Greyworm not killing Jon after he commits the deed is worse and the writers knew it as they punked out and didn't show it.

You said it in your own words “she didn’t view him as a threat”...yeah. That’s retarded. He’s the only threat. 

[Starkiller]

1 hour ago, oldschool said:

I agree with a lot of this. While the concept of a council of lords choosing the king is fine; the execution was bad.

Part of the problem is there is no good way to do this on TV. In the books the great councils would be way more lords and it would take days. 

 

 

 

[Mercalius]

32 minutes ago, Starkiller said:

Part of the problem is there is no good way to do this on TV. In the books the great councils would be way more lords and it would take days. 

 

 

 

Like when Jon was named Commander of the Nightwatch or Jon or Rob was named King of the North?  Those scenes were great.  Not the cringe fest that was last night.  

 

Tyrion, the prisoner, very likely hated or barely tolerated by several in attendance suggests the kid who’s done nothing should get the crown and everyone just goes along with it.  

 

He essentially set Jon up to be exiled by begging him to merc Dany, had Varys killed when he was right all along (then committed treason himself ten minutes later) and gets rewarded by being the Hand again by suggesting the kid who likely saw all this death and betrayal coming should get to rule the land. It’s dumb.  And Tyrion was/is my favorite character.  The decision making in the moment doesn’t mix with any form of logic and the dialogue/presentation was forced to fuel an ending without any semblance or organic transition.  

 

Those earlier scenes where folks were chosen as leaders worked because they had just accomplished great things or it made sense in the flow of the narrative.  This literally felt like they drew a name out of a hat.  Why was he the best choice?  Because he’s a Stark?  So is Sansa.  So is Arya.  So is Jon, kinda.  Because he’s a male?   He very likely can’t reproduce due to his accident.  So traditional hierarchal rules are basically out the window.  

 

Its because hes “magic”.  They just didn’t want to make it seem that simple and cliched so they had the hammy justification as to why he should be the ruler.  And in the same argument to prop him up it destroys his kingliness because we have to (at minimum) assume he knew about the coming catastrophes and his first cousin taking the fall for a necessary assassination and doing nothing about them nor showing any true remorse about him having to be inactive in their occurrences.  Which is also bullshit because as we’ve seen with Hodor, Littlefinger, and Jon’s parentage - he uses his knowledge of the past/future plenty of times to manipulate the flow of the story.  

 

Its shit.  And the more you explore it, the more shit it is.  

Edited May 20, 2019 by Mercalius

[Jonboy]

On 3/15/2013 at 11:43 PM, Jonboy said:

Just got into this series a few weeks ago. Raced through season 1 and season 2 and immediately started the first book. Pretty amazing stuff. Tyrion Lannister is freakin' awesome btw.

 

Any timetable on the release date for The Winds of Winter?

Oh my sweet, summer child.

[Jamalisms]

I think the reality is that I was frustrated with this show for a number of years, and then was ready to murder someone around episode 3, and so I'm onto a different stage of grief than most of you.  I'm disappointed but not raging.

 

It's been evident they can't write for years. It's been evident that they are shrinking the cast of characters and the way the characters interact for years. They haven't been building organically or interweaving intricate plot for years. They choose a destination and provide crappy rationale to get there. Tyrion has been a prop used to put Dany in tough situations or to give Cersei and upper hand and he hasn't had his own true plot line for years - and he was the most popular, fascinating character ... and he even stayed central to the plot and had a large role in the finale ... and they still gave up his storyline. And it's been evident since they announced the shortened seasons, which was a few years ago, that they are moving on no matter what anyone says and no matter the wisdom of trying to wrap it up that quickly.

 

So, for all of those complications and problems, I thought they executed what it is pretty well the last three episodes, overall. With some really ugly crap happening that was hard to believe they found acceptable.

 

One thing not discussed much but it's of no to me, is how they added to Dany's madness / mental snap a layer of world domination and abuse in the name of ending abuse and it was, I think, a major save of that storyline. It made the turn against her completely believable.

 

But they never really sold Jon loving her or why he would love her. So him struggling with it so much didn't land despite that you knew that what they were trying to show you was he loved her and it was crushing him. Instead he just looked like stupid Jon walking into another bad idea with his heart on his sleeve.

 

Heck, I think the idea of Greyworm becoming a problem and trying to address the question of what happens to an army when its leader is assassinated is a fascinating subject that could have used an entire episode to develop. Hell, you could turn that into an entire season if you wanted to explore all of the complexity there and the possible negotiations and war craft that could develop. But instead we got him giving up on minutes for no reason.

 

It's just all part of the same issue of time and development. Almost nothing that they ended up accomplishing was problematic by itself. It's all about how they got there and the fact that it didn't land. And the fact that it was different from the nature of the show before.

 

I think they probably should have done more seasons but even if they want to end after 8 seasons ... fine. You can spend an episode on hellos and another episode on goodbyes in a 10-episode run but not when you only have 6 episodes. You can have the Night King defeated in a single battle if you have that stretch somehow across multiple episodes and have a cliffhanger and true sense of peril in the middle ... and not the crap that they put on screen where people survive despite how they're presented in impossible situations and TV magic saves the day with plot armor. And you can develop Dany and Jon and develop Greyworm  turning cold after the death of Missandei and all the other stuff so much better with extra episodes. You can show us many of the scenes that they just skipped because it was easier. We should have seen Jamie talk to Bran when he arrived at Einterfell. We should have seen Sansa and Arya react to the news of Jon's heritage. We should have seen Sansa and Tyrion truly talking about the merits of Jon versus Dany. We should have seen the aftermath of Dany dying, at least the immediate aftermath.

 

There are so many things they could have done and the timeline did not allow for it. And that is just unforced and it was a choice and it was wrong and it was so substantial and meaningful that in many ways it is just simple and clear that these two producers, personally, ruined the show ... to the degree it was ruined.

[9 Nines]

In order to express how I viewed last night's Game of Thrones I would like to do an illustration because a picture is worth a thousand words but unfortunately I can't draw.

[Jamalisms]

[9 Nines]

2 minutes ago, Jamalisms said:

That is correct.  The dragon understood that the lust for the throne is what killed her.