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5 hours ago, rns90 said:

You keep on treating this like it’s a business and it’s not really run like that.


And as far as that first paragraph about coaches sitting in meeting rooms and going over plays, yes that happens in the NFL.

 

And playcalling is the difference between winning and losing and if you are going to minimize that aspect , I really don’t know what to say.

Imo  and based on following these teams for years and lastly based on the sheer volume of coaches, analysts on the team now- it runs way more like business/organization than many seem to understand. 

 

A business is simply a set of processes to coordinate the work of a lot of experts.  The NFL operation is nothing but a huge number of very specialized experts.  Making the offensive coordinator and head coach way more managers than actual coaches. 

 

 

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something we might actually win!

That dude just an ax to grind about the Cally hire. Sure he's made some mistakes but the idea the offense production is more his fault than the shitty ass fucking QB and RT spots is laughable. Look at

I think Levis is horrible and have little hope.    But may as well play him and hope for a miracle turnaround. 

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5 hours ago, rns90 said:

You keep on treating this like it’s a business and it’s not really run like that.


And as far as that first paragraph about coaches sitting in meeting rooms and going over plays, yes that happens in the NFL.

 

And playcalling is the difference between winning and losing and if you are going to minimize that aspect , I really don’t know what to say.

 

### **NFL Coaching Organization Chart**

#### 1. **Head Coach**
   - **Overall responsibility** for team performance, strategy, and game management. Has the final say on coaching decisions and often collaborates closely with the general manager and ownership.

#### 2. **Coordinators** (Report to Head Coach)
   - **Offensive Coordinator**
     - Manages the offensive strategy, game plan, and coaches within the offensive unit.
   - **Defensive Coordinator**
     - Oversees the defensive strategy, game plan, and defensive position coaches.
   - **Special Teams Coordinator**
     - Directs special teams strategy (kickoff, punt, field goal units) and works with special teams personnel.

#### 3. **Position Coaches** (Report to Coordinators)
   - **Offensive Position Coaches** (Report to Offensive Coordinator)
     - **Quarterbacks Coach** – Works directly with quarterbacks on skills and game prep.
     - **Running Backs Coach** – Develops running backs’ skills and game-specific tactics.
     - **Wide Receivers Coach** – Trains wide receivers in route-running and catching.
     - **Tight Ends Coach** – Specializes in tight end training and techniques.
     - **Offensive Line Coach** – Develops blocking schemes and trains the offensive line.
   - **Defensive Position Coaches** (Report to Defensive Coordinator)
     - **Defensive Line Coach** – Focuses on defensive linemen skills and pass-rushing techniques.
     - **Linebackers Coach** – Prepares linebackers for specific defensive schemes.
     - **Defensive Backs Coach** – Works with cornerbacks and safeties on coverage skills.
     - **Assistant Defensive Backs Coach** – Assists in coaching defensive backs.
   - **Special Teams Position Coaches** (Report to Special Teams Coordinator)
     - **Assistant Special Teams Coach** – Assists with drills and player preparation for special teams.

#### 4. **Assistant Coaches / Quality Control Coaches** (Typically Report to Position Coaches or Coordinators)
   - **Offensive Quality Control Coach**
     - Analyzes game film, assists in preparing the offensive game plan, and supports position coaches in practice drills.
   - **Defensive Quality Control Coach**
     - Breaks down film, contributes to defensive game planning, and aids position coaches in practice drills.
   - **Special Teams Quality Control Coach**
     - Assists in special teams film analysis and practice prep, often taking on administrative tasks for the special teams unit.

#### 5. **Analysts and Assistants** (Report to Quality Control or Directly to Position Coaches or Coordinators)
   - **Offensive Analyst** – Studies opponent’s defense, breaks down film, and provides detailed reports to the offensive coordinator and position coaches.
   - **Defensive Analyst** – Studies opponent’s offense, assists in defensive game plan preparation, and compiles data for the defensive coordinator.
   - **Special Teams Analyst** – Analyzes opponent special teams, supports strategy development, and helps identify areas of improvement.

#### 6. **Film Analysts** (Report to Quality Control Coaches or Analysts)
   - **Film Analyst / Video Assistant** – Primarily responsible for gathering, organizing, and analyzing game footage. Duties often include:
     - Filming practices and games from various angles.
     - Breaking down footage into specific plays, formations, or sequences.
     - Preparing video cut-ups for specific player or team evaluations.
     - Providing technical support for coaches and players in using video analysis software.

---

### Summary of Reporting Structure
1. **Head Coach**
2. **Coordinators** (Offensive, Defensive, Special Teams)
3. **Position Coaches** (Offensive, Defensive, Special Teams)
4. **Assistant Coaches / Quality Control Coaches** (Offensive, Defensive, Special Teams)
5. **Analysts** (Offensive, Defensive, Special Teams)
6. **Film Analysts** (Report to Quality Control Coaches or Analysts)

 

That's the equivalent of a VP.  The head coach is not sitting down and working with players that much. They are managers of a very large organization.  They manager processes, ppl, and review, approval and edit others work.  

 

They are not your high school coaches.  Play calling by an offensive coordinator is looking at a sheet of options that his team of coaches prepared for him for those scenarios.   All the prep of those scnerios, the film study and even the teaching of it are done by staff.    

 

When the won 5 playoff games, BC ran all of those processes, developed what was reviewed by the head coach and managed those that directly coached the players.   He wasn't just a guy they happen to pay millions to be the OC for show. 

 

 

 

Screenshot 2024-10-30 at 8.19.39 PM.png

Edited by Pragidealist
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58 minutes ago, Pragidealist said:

 

### **NFL Coaching Organization Chart**

#### 1. **Head Coach**
   - **Overall responsibility** for team performance, strategy, and game management. Has the final say on coaching decisions and often collaborates closely with the general manager and ownership.

#### 2. **Coordinators** (Report to Head Coach)
   - **Offensive Coordinator**
     - Manages the offensive strategy, game plan, and coaches within the offensive unit.
   - **Defensive Coordinator**
     - Oversees the defensive strategy, game plan, and defensive position coaches.
   - **Special Teams Coordinator**
     - Directs special teams strategy (kickoff, punt, field goal units) and works with special teams personnel.

#### 3. **Position Coaches** (Report to Coordinators)
   - **Offensive Position Coaches** (Report to Offensive Coordinator)
     - **Quarterbacks Coach** – Works directly with quarterbacks on skills and game prep.
     - **Running Backs Coach** – Develops running backs’ skills and game-specific tactics.
     - **Wide Receivers Coach** – Trains wide receivers in route-running and catching.
     - **Tight Ends Coach** – Specializes in tight end training and techniques.
     - **Offensive Line Coach** – Develops blocking schemes and trains the offensive line.
   - **Defensive Position Coaches** (Report to Defensive Coordinator)
     - **Defensive Line Coach** – Focuses on defensive linemen skills and pass-rushing techniques.
     - **Linebackers Coach** – Prepares linebackers for specific defensive schemes.
     - **Defensive Backs Coach** – Works with cornerbacks and safeties on coverage skills.
     - **Assistant Defensive Backs Coach** – Assists in coaching defensive backs.
   - **Special Teams Position Coaches** (Report to Special Teams Coordinator)
     - **Assistant Special Teams Coach** – Assists with drills and player preparation for special teams.

#### 4. **Assistant Coaches / Quality Control Coaches** (Typically Report to Position Coaches or Coordinators)
   - **Offensive Quality Control Coach**
     - Analyzes game film, assists in preparing the offensive game plan, and supports position coaches in practice drills.
   - **Defensive Quality Control Coach**
     - Breaks down film, contributes to defensive game planning, and aids position coaches in practice drills.
   - **Special Teams Quality Control Coach**
     - Assists in special teams film analysis and practice prep, often taking on administrative tasks for the special teams unit.

#### 5. **Analysts and Assistants** (Report to Quality Control or Directly to Position Coaches or Coordinators)
   - **Offensive Analyst** – Studies opponent’s defense, breaks down film, and provides detailed reports to the offensive coordinator and position coaches.
   - **Defensive Analyst** – Studies opponent’s offense, assists in defensive game plan preparation, and compiles data for the defensive coordinator.
   - **Special Teams Analyst** – Analyzes opponent special teams, supports strategy development, and helps identify areas of improvement.

#### 6. **Film Analysts** (Report to Quality Control Coaches or Analysts)
   - **Film Analyst / Video Assistant** – Primarily responsible for gathering, organizing, and analyzing game footage. Duties often include:
     - Filming practices and games from various angles.
     - Breaking down footage into specific plays, formations, or sequences.
     - Preparing video cut-ups for specific player or team evaluations.
     - Providing technical support for coaches and players in using video analysis software.

---

### Summary of Reporting Structure
1. **Head Coach**
2. **Coordinators** (Offensive, Defensive, Special Teams)
3. **Position Coaches** (Offensive, Defensive, Special Teams)
4. **Assistant Coaches / Quality Control Coaches** (Offensive, Defensive, Special Teams)
5. **Analysts** (Offensive, Defensive, Special Teams)
6. **Film Analysts** (Report to Quality Control Coaches or Analysts)

 

That's the equivalent of a VP.  The head coach is not sitting down and working with players that much. They are managers of a very large organization.  They manager processes, ppl, and review, approval and edit others work.  

 

They are not your high school coaches.  Play calling by an offensive coordinator is looking at a sheet of options that his team of coaches prepared for him for those scenarios.   All the prep of those scnerios, the film study and even the teaching of it are done by staff.    

 

When the won 5 playoff games, BC ran all of those processes, developed what was reviewed by the head coach and managed those that directly coached the players.   He wasn't just a guy they happen to pay millions to be the OC for show. 

 

 

 

Screenshot 2024-10-30 at 8.19.39 PM.png

It's such a massive under-taking that I really don't understand how fans can so confidently state which coach is responsible for any specific incident that occurs on the field. Too many moving parts and confounding variables for that level of certainty. 

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2 hours ago, Pragidealist said:

 

### **NFL Coaching Organization Chart**

#### 1. **Head Coach**
   - **Overall responsibility** for team performance, strategy, and game management. Has the final say on coaching decisions and often collaborates closely with the general manager and ownership.

#### 2. **Coordinators** (Report to Head Coach)
   - **Offensive Coordinator**
     - Manages the offensive strategy, game plan, and coaches within the offensive unit.
   - **Defensive Coordinator**
     - Oversees the defensive strategy, game plan, and defensive position coaches.
   - **Special Teams Coordinator**
     - Directs special teams strategy (kickoff, punt, field goal units) and works with special teams personnel.

#### 3. **Position Coaches** (Report to Coordinators)
   - **Offensive Position Coaches** (Report to Offensive Coordinator)
     - **Quarterbacks Coach** – Works directly with quarterbacks on skills and game prep.
     - **Running Backs Coach** – Develops running backs’ skills and game-specific tactics.
     - **Wide Receivers Coach** – Trains wide receivers in route-running and catching.
     - **Tight Ends Coach** – Specializes in tight end training and techniques.
     - **Offensive Line Coach** – Develops blocking schemes and trains the offensive line.
   - **Defensive Position Coaches** (Report to Defensive Coordinator)
     - **Defensive Line Coach** – Focuses on defensive linemen skills and pass-rushing techniques.
     - **Linebackers Coach** – Prepares linebackers for specific defensive schemes.
     - **Defensive Backs Coach** – Works with cornerbacks and safeties on coverage skills.
     - **Assistant Defensive Backs Coach** – Assists in coaching defensive backs.
   - **Special Teams Position Coaches** (Report to Special Teams Coordinator)
     - **Assistant Special Teams Coach** – Assists with drills and player preparation for special teams.

#### 4. **Assistant Coaches / Quality Control Coaches** (Typically Report to Position Coaches or Coordinators)
   - **Offensive Quality Control Coach**
     - Analyzes game film, assists in preparing the offensive game plan, and supports position coaches in practice drills.
   - **Defensive Quality Control Coach**
     - Breaks down film, contributes to defensive game planning, and aids position coaches in practice drills.
   - **Special Teams Quality Control Coach**
     - Assists in special teams film analysis and practice prep, often taking on administrative tasks for the special teams unit.

#### 5. **Analysts and Assistants** (Report to Quality Control or Directly to Position Coaches or Coordinators)
   - **Offensive Analyst** – Studies opponent’s defense, breaks down film, and provides detailed reports to the offensive coordinator and position coaches.
   - **Defensive Analyst** – Studies opponent’s offense, assists in defensive game plan preparation, and compiles data for the defensive coordinator.
   - **Special Teams Analyst** – Analyzes opponent special teams, supports strategy development, and helps identify areas of improvement.

#### 6. **Film Analysts** (Report to Quality Control Coaches or Analysts)
   - **Film Analyst / Video Assistant** – Primarily responsible for gathering, organizing, and analyzing game footage. Duties often include:
     - Filming practices and games from various angles.
     - Breaking down footage into specific plays, formations, or sequences.
     - Preparing video cut-ups for specific player or team evaluations.
     - Providing technical support for coaches and players in using video analysis software.

---

### Summary of Reporting Structure
1. **Head Coach**
2. **Coordinators** (Offensive, Defensive, Special Teams)
3. **Position Coaches** (Offensive, Defensive, Special Teams)
4. **Assistant Coaches / Quality Control Coaches** (Offensive, Defensive, Special Teams)
5. **Analysts** (Offensive, Defensive, Special Teams)
6. **Film Analysts** (Report to Quality Control Coaches or Analysts)

 

That's the equivalent of a VP.  The head coach is not sitting down and working with players that much. They are managers of a very large organization.  They manager processes, ppl, and review, approval and edit others work.  

 

They are not your high school coaches.  Play calling by an offensive coordinator is looking at a sheet of options that his team of coaches prepared for him for those scenarios.   All the prep of those scnerios, the film study and even the teaching of it are done by staff.    

 

When the won 5 playoff games, BC ran all of those processes, developed what was reviewed by the head coach and managed those that directly coached the players.   He wasn't just a guy they happen to pay millions to be the OC for show. 

 

 

 

Screenshot 2024-10-30 at 8.19.39 PM.png

 

Ain't nobody got time fo dat!

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9 minutes ago, BudsOilers said:

Giving Callahan credit when he had a top 5 QB who was the #1 overall pick and he didn't call plays is hilariously dumb.

 

This sort of proves @Pragidealist @Mythos27 point. Who's to say Cally wasn't instrumental in bringing along Burrow? 

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4 minutes ago, oldschool said:

 

This sort of proves @Pragidealist @Mythos27 point. Who's to say Cally wasn't instrumental in bringing along Burrow? 

What people tend to do is play this game of assigning credit to the coach they already think highly of refusing to give credit to coaches they already think are incompetent. In reality, we have little idea of which coaches players are clicking with and thus being more influenced by. There is also the fact that a lot of these players have personal, private coaches with whom they likely spend more time working than the coaches on the staff. There is so little practice time in the NFL that I seriously question how many minutes in the day are dedicated to developing the skill-sets of players.  

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51 minutes ago, BudsOilers said:

Giving Callahan credit when he had a top 5 QB who was the #1 overall pick and he didn't call plays is hilariously dumb.

Simplifying a manager's role at that scale of operations to just play calling and managing timeouts is amazingly naive and shallow minded.  No one is paying a guy millions for just that.  

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53 minutes ago, oldschool said:

 

This sort of proves @Pragidealist @Mythos27 point. Who's to say Cally wasn't instrumental in bringing along Burrow? 

I'll say it.  Burrow was a #1 overall pick who was ready to play day 1.   The idea Callahan had significant impact on Burrow or Stafford or Manning (his resume cred's) is pretty humorous.  

 

Prag is trying to assign playoff records to a non-play calling OC as a contrast to Vrabel's playoff records.  It's fucking retarded.

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21 minutes ago, Pragidealist said:

Simplifying a manager's role at that scale of operations to just play calling and managing timeouts is amazingly naive and shallow minded.  No one is paying a guy millions for just that.  

At no point did anyone do this.   What's retarded is trying to give Callahan a 5-2 playoff record as a coach when he wasn't the HC or the play caller on offense.

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1 minute ago, BudsOilers said:

 

 

Prag is trying to assign playoff records to a non-play calling OC as a contrast to Vrabel's playoff records.  It's fucking retarded.

I'm stating facts. As an OC- BC has 5 wins.  As a head coach- Vrabel has 2 wins.  That's not saying BC is a better coach than Vrabel. It does say Vrabel is not a good coach. It does say BC is a good OC.  Objectively from the facts. 

 

How and why they are good or bad? Can BC be a good HC? Can Vrabel be a good headcoach in the future?  What attributes or should be factored into why they were good or bad?  All debatable things. 

 

But that BC won 5 play off games as an OC and that Vrabel has only won 2 as a head coach are just facts. 

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3 minutes ago, BudsOilers said:

I'll say it.  Burrow was a #1 overall pick who was ready to play day 1.   The idea Callahan had significant impact on Burrow or Stafford or Manning (his resume cred's) is pretty humorous.  

 

Prag is trying to assign playoff records to a non-play calling OC as a contrast to Vrabel's playoff records.  It's fucking retarded.

Of course it is.  Substitute “Adam Gase” for Callahan and it’s pretty much the same thing.  Heck I think Gase at least called plays . 
 

And I think people are glossing over the playcalling stuff way too easily and it’s a significant aspect.

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Just now, BudsOilers said:

At no point did anyone do this.   What's retarded is trying to give Callahan a 5-2 playoff record as a coach when he wasn't the HC or the play caller on offense.

He literally was a 5-2 as an OC. There's nothing "retarded" boomer for stating a fact. 

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Just now, Pragidealist said:

He literally was a 5-2 as an OC. There's nothing "retarded" boomer for stating a fact. 

It's retarded to put any stock into assigning records to assistant coaches in a direct comparison to a HC.  Especially one who didn't even call the plays.  It's retarded.

 

There's a reason why places like Pro Football Reference only assign records to Head Coaches.

 

BTW, even if you want to take your retarded route, Callahan's record would be as follows:

 

42-46-1 with Cincy and 1-6 with the Titans as either a OC or HC.....

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