Hamas Brutally Massacres Scores of Civilians: WH Puts the Squeeze on Netanyahu

[IrishTitansFan]

It’s not as simple as either of you are making it

 

There were less than 15,000 Jews in Palestine at the turn of the century, so it wasn’t like it was a 50/50 split. Massive anti-semitism in Europe and France in particular first caused refugees to pour in, increasing this population. Zionism had taken a hold among some wealthy Americans which had a big influence and the British were willing to back the creation of a state to halt Jewish refugees, so there was a pretty strong push beginning for the creation of Israel already

 

This, along with the obvious King anti-Semite Hitler working with zionists to shift huge amounts of refugees from Germany also pre-war caused another massive surge as thousands starting moving illegally, way over the limits set by the British mandate. When the British pulled out this left a vacuum that they had to fill, but the Zionists had a pretty good backbone they were working off, and the Arabs in Palestine obviously had nothing. The Arab armies from neighbouring countries were led by the prince of Transjordan who’s primary objective was actually working against the interests of the Arab armies as a whole, he just wanted a piece of the pie of this land mass being split up

 

The Arabs lost, fair enough. Israel wasn’t just handed to them without a fight. But it also wasn’t your typical conquered territory story. The losers were the Palestinians who lost their homes, lives etc

 

It was a big geopolitical mess, but JAF is right in saying some of it could have been avoided if the Arabs allowed for more discussion for a Jewish-Arab collaborative institution to be created, even if this does seem unlikely to have ever been accepted with how quickly the things I’ve talked about above developed

Edited July 11 by IrishTitansFan

[WG53]

3 hours ago, Justafan said:

You want to parse words, but that doesn't change reality. Multiple wars were fought. You want to say the Allies conquered the Ottoman Empire, split it up, and gave some to the Jews? I don't have an issue with that and have never stated otherwise, but it wasn't taken from Arabs and given to Jews like it has been insinuated; it was taken from a multi-ethnic empire that crumbled and split among ethnic groups who then fought for control over it. 

And this post here is a lot different from what you have stated and the way you talk about the situation

 

I don't remember saying anything about taking it from Arabs either.

[Justafan]

4 minutes ago, WG53 said:

And this post here is a lot different from what you have stated and the way you talk about the situation

 

I don't remember saying anything about taking it from Arabs either.

It was heavily insinuated in posts before you jumped in that land was stolen from Arabs and given to the Jews, who then went on a killing and raping spree to ethnically cleanse the area, which is what I took issue with in the first place and was pretty clear about.  I also said multiple times that the land was divided so I'm not even sure what exactly it is you take issue with. 

Edited July 11 by Justafan

[WG53]

9 minutes ago, Justafan said:

It was heavily insinuated in posts before you jumped in that land was stolen from Arabs and given to the Jews, who then went on a killing and raping spree to ethnically cleanse the area, which is what I took issue with in the first place and was pretty clear about.  I also said multiple times that the land was divided so I'm not even sure what exactly it is you take issue with. 

I said nothing similar to that at all. Maybe you're thinking of something @IrishTitansFan said.

 

My issue is obvious and two fold. Talking about Israel as if they weren't given the land when creating the nation as they(Jewish nation) did not create it through domination. They didn't conquer anything to create it despite the repeated use of the phrase when describing the counties origin. 

 

And Secondly, acting as if discussing anything about Israel in a non flattering light makes one antisemitic.  It doesn't. 

 

[Justafan]

3 minutes ago, WG53 said:

I said nothing similar to that at all. Maybe you're thinking of something @IrishTitansFan said.

 

My issue is obvious and two fold. Talking about Israel as if they weren't given the land when creating the nation as they(Jewish nation) did not create it through domination. They didn't conquer anything to create it despite the repeated use of the phrase when describing the counties origin. 

 

And Secondly, acting as if discussing anything about Israel in a non flattering light makes one antisemitic.  It doesn't. 

 

So, I just said, "before you jumped in"... 

 

Also, the wars I was referring to in which Israel was created through domination were the 1948 and subsequent wars, not the original fall of the Ottoman Empire and British occupation, which, let's be honest, is largely unrelated to what we were discussing, and was only pushed there, from my POV, through misunderstanding. 

 

I never said any criticism of Jews was anti-semitism, but the constant framing of Palestenians as victims and Jews as oppressive killers, rapists, and murderers, while downplaying the crimes that have been constant and ongoing on the other side, most certainly is. Irish said that wasn't his intent, and I believe him and said as much. So you're fighting with the wind as far as I'm concerned. 

[IrishTitansFan]

Just for clarity, when I was talking about ethnic cleansing, I was specifically talking about the early militias and military in 1948.

Not the war after. This is what I took issue it when describing it as rightfully conquered

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Palestinian_expulsion_and_flight

[Justafan]

6 hours ago, IrishTitansFan said:

Just for clarity, when I was talking about ethnic cleansing, I was specifically talking about the early militias and military in 1948.

Not the war after. This is what I took issue it when describing it as rightfully conquered

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Palestinian_expulsion_and_flight

Yup. We disagree on that as ethnic cleansing and why that happened, but that's okay. You believe it was a deliberate effort to seize more territory and push out Arabs. I believe it was a necessary military action required to defend against the known upcoming invasion. 

[IsntLifeFunny]

44 minutes ago, Justafan said:

Yup. We disagree on that as ethnic cleansing and why that happened, but that's okay. You believe it was a deliberate effort to seize more territory and push out Arabs. I believe it was a necessary military action required to defend against the known upcoming invasion. 

Have the biological warfare claims been shown as true? 

[Justafan]

12 hours ago, IsntLifeFunny said:

Have the biological warfare claims been shown as true? 

To be honest, no idea, but I have a hard time believing that people who just recently survived the holocaust would turn around and engage in biological warfare out of convenience. 

Edited July 12 by Justafan

[IsntLifeFunny]

7 hours ago, Justafan said:

To be honest, no idea, but I have a hard time believing that people who just recently survived the holocaust would turn around and engage in biological warfare out of convenience. 

I don't know either way, but that stood out to me reading the wiki page. 

[IrishTitansFan]

 

ICJ Rules Israel is an apartheid state

[IrishTitansFan]

 

[LongTimeFan]

Gee, the UN hates Isreal. Not really big news.

[Little Earl]

21 minutes ago, LongTimeFan said:

Gee, the UN hates Isreal. Not really big news.

Also who care what the UN says.

[IrishTitansFan]