Hamas Brutally Massacres Scores of Civilians: Humanitarian Ceasefire Deal Reached

[Justafan]

54 minutes ago, IrishTitansFan said:

I just did link it! Here is the table from the article seeing as you decided not to read it

 

They’re definitely not consistent and vary wildly, but going back 50 years you can make a pretty good assessment that the good people on all sides would love a peaceful resolution

Okay, yet a different poll. I thought you were linking to the other one, so I didn't open it.

 

Look, this one was taken in the middle of peace talks, so I'll agree based on that they vary.  Having said that, you can take another one right after peace talks stalled, and it's right back to the same wipe Israel from the map numbers from before.  The whole point is that the Palestenians are not all innocent victims.  There have been HUNDREDS of attacks and widespread support for Hamas and violence.  

 

We already agree that some want peace.  You can't just ignore what Hamas has done because not EVERYONE was involved. So tell me, what was the appropriate response?

 

If you can't see that there is a large portion that wants blood, then I don't know what to say. If the fact that they openly planned for years a massive attack to kill a thousand people and no one said anything doesn't convince you, I don't know what will.  If the fact that they have no problem hiding under hospitals and schools and using humans as shields won't convince you of the type of people they are, I don't know what will.  If seeing how Jews are treated in arab states vs how Arabs are treated in the Jewish state won't convince you, I don't know what will. 

 

Obviously, you won't convince me that blue is brown because it's not. Since you think Israel is a fascist state committing genocide - your words - and Palestenians, who their elected leaders in Hamas represent - are somehow not responsible in the least for Hamas' actions... I will never convince you that brown is blue because you're color-blind and are convinced beyond reason. 

[Justafan]

 

I know not all of you will agree with this, and that's okay, but I want to present a different POV from the Israeli POV. Before you write this stuff off, please keep in mind I have no interest in advancing any conservative agenda on this. 

[IrishTitansFan]

37 minutes ago, Justafan said:

Okay, yet a different poll. I thought you were linking to the other one, so I didn't open it.

 

Look, this one was taken in the middle of peace talks, so I'll agree based on that they vary.  Having said that, you can take another one right after peace talks stalled, and it's right back to the same wipe Israel from the map numbers from before.  The whole point is that the Palestenians are not all innocent victims.  There have been HUNDREDS of attacks and widespread support for Hamas and violence.  

 

We already agree that some want peace.  You can't just ignore what Hamas has done because not EVERYONE was involved. So tell me, what was the appropriate response?

 

If you can't see that there is a large portion that wants blood, then I don't know what to say. If the fact that they openly planned for years a massive attack to kill a thousand people and no one said anything doesn't convince you, I don't know what will.  If the fact that they have no problem hiding under hospitals and schools and using humans as shields won't convince you of the type of people they are, I don't know what will.  If seeing how Jews are treated in arab states vs how Arabs are treated in the Jewish state won't convince you, I don't know what will. 

 

Obviously, you won't convince me that blue is brown because it's not. Since you think Israel is a fascist state committing genocide - your words - and Palestenians, who their elected leaders in Hamas represent - are somehow not responsible in the least for Hamas' actions... I will never convince you that brown is blue because you're color-blind and are convinced beyond reason. 

Of course Hamas and their supporter are evil and genocidal maniacs too, I made the comment earlier in the thread that it's two sides going war crime for war crime, that's why it's such a messy situation

 

The correct and only response to actually fix this for both sides is to enter peace talks and enter into a two state solution, with Israel dismantling their settlements in the west bank, recognising Palestine as a state with full citizenship for both nationalities for the other country and Hamas handing over their arms. 

 

Obviously that sounds close to impossible, but purposefully wiping out the majority of the Gazan population is nowhere near an appropriate response for an attack which killed 1500

 

How do you think Israel should deal with this, given that you believe it's all Israels land to reclaim?

[Justafan]

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/white-house-says-israel-hamas-hostage-deal-closer-than-before-2023-11-21/

 

I guess the fascist, genocidal maniac is negotiating behind the scenes for the release of hostages.  I'm sure if they hadn't taken military action, Hamas would have just handed them back after a friendly chat. 

[IrishTitansFan]

1 minute ago, Justafan said:

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/white-house-says-israel-hamas-hostage-deal-closer-than-before-2023-11-21/

 

I guess the fascist, genocidal maniac is negotiating behind the scenes for the release of hostages.  I'm sure if they hadn't taken military action, Hamas would have just handed them back after a friendly chat. 

LOL, so I guess Hamas attack was successful because Israel are releasing female kids held captive too right? Right?

[IrishTitansFan]

The release of hostages from Hamas is wonderful news however, hopefully the young Irish-Israeli girl gets home safely soon

[Justafan]

2 minutes ago, IrishTitansFan said:

Of course Hamas and their supporter are evil and genocidal maniacs too, I made the comment earlier in the thread that it's two sides going war crime for war crime, that's why it's such a messy situation

 

The correct and only response to actually fix this for both sides is to enter peace talks and enter into a two state solution, with Israel dismantling their settlements in the west bank, recognising Palestine as a state with full citizenship for both nationalities for the other country and Hamas handing over their arms. 

 

Obviously that sounds close to impossible, but purposefully wiping out the majority of the Gazan population is nowhere near an appropriate response for an attack which killed 1500

 

How do you think Israel should deal with this, given that you believe it's all Israels land to reclaim?

1. Their supporters are a majority of Palestinians.

2. Military action responding to being attacked is not a war crime.  It's not the Isreali's fault that Hamas has decided to hide behind women and children.

3. You can't enter into peace talks and negotiate in good faith with people who just attacked you, killed over 1,000 citizens, whacked off heads, and then bragged about it. It's simply fantasy.

4. Israel is a sovereign nation.  Personally, I think there should be one state, and everyone should have equal rights, but that's never going to happen because neither side wants it.  The only real solution is for the other Arab nations to step up and accept their people as refugees.  They won't do that, though, because why would they? So what we're left with is Isreal dealing with it as best they can, which is exactly what they've done. You can cry about it, but you don't have to carry a gun to the supermarket just in case a jihadist decides they would like to kidnap you and kill your family. 

 

 

 

[Justafan]

5 minutes ago, IrishTitansFan said:

LOL, so I guess Hamas attack was successful because Israel are releasing female kids held captive too right? Right?

Unfortunately, it was.  They're getting what they want.  It was still dumb as hell because look at what it cost but it's not about pragmatic saving of lives for them, it's about the political statements and doing whatever it takes to hurt their 'oppressors'.  If it was up to me, I would keep up the pressure but I understand why they are doing it.  You can't forget your people if there is a chance you can save some of them. 

[IrishTitansFan]

12 minutes ago, Justafan said:

1. Their supporters are a majority of Palestinians.

2. Military action responding to being attacked is not a war crime.  It's not the Isreali's fault that Hamas has decided to hide behind women and children.

3. You can't enter into peace talks and negotiate in good faith with people who just attacked you, killed over 1,000 citizens, whacked off heads, and then bragged about it. It's simply fantasy.

4. Israel is a sovereign nation.  Personally, I think there should be one state, and everyone should have equal rights, but that's never going to happen because neither side wants it.  The only real solution is for the other Arab nations to step up and accept their people as refugees.  They won't do that, though, because why would they? So what we're left with is Isreal dealing with it as best they can, which is exactly what they've done. You can cry about it, but you don't have to carry a gun to the supermarket just in case a jihadist decides they would like to kidnap you and kill your family. 

 

 

 

So your ideal resolution is to kill or displace all Palestinians until there are none on their own lands and they are all pushed to foreign countries, ending the idea of Palestine as a nation?

 

" In 1948, the United Nations Genocide Convention defined genocide as any of five "acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group". These five acts were: killing members of the group, causing them serious bodily or mental harm, imposing living conditions intended to destroy the group, preventing births, and forcibly transferring children out of the group. Victims are targeted because of their real or perceived membership of a group, not randomly."

 

And yeah, pretty much everything Israel is doing are war crimes, from their blockade of Gaza to their bombing campaigns to their instructions to flee south. There are actual definitions for war crimes you know

 

[IrishTitansFan]

BTW, I don't think that what Israel has done so far yet meets the threshold for Genoicde but that scenario certainly would be, and I think Netanyahu might agree with you

[Justafan]

42 minutes ago, IrishTitansFan said:

So your ideal resolution is to kill or displace all Palestinians until there are none on their own lands and they are all pushed to foreign countries, ending the idea of Palestine as a nation?

 

" In 1948, the United Nations Genocide Convention defined genocide as any of five "acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group". These five acts were: killing members of the group, causing them serious bodily or mental harm, imposing living conditions intended to destroy the group, preventing births, and forcibly transferring children out of the group. Victims are targeted because of their real or perceived membership of a group, not randomly."

 

And yeah, pretty much everything Israel is doing are war crimes, from their blockade of Gaza to their bombing campaigns to their instructions to flee south. There are actual definitions for war crimes you know

 

That's a small step from what I said and by small I mean grand canyon. 

[Jamalisms]

On 11/19/2023 at 1:19 PM, tgo said:

 

 

I imagine they know more than is obvious to me from just watching that brief clip but I wonder how they know that's a hostage?

[Justafan]

35 minutes ago, IrishTitansFan said:

BTW, I don't think that what Israel has done so far yet meets the threshold for Genoicde but that scenario certainly would be, and I think Netanyahu might agree with you

1. BTW, you said it was genocide so stick to your guns.

 

2. There is no nation of Palestine.  That's not a thing any more than Kurdistan is. 

 

3. NO one said anything about killing or forcibly displacing anyone, that's where your leap in logic took you. 

[Justafan]

1 minute ago, Jamalisms said:

 

I imagine they know more than is obvious to me from just watching that brief clip but I wonder how they know that's a hostage?

Um, perhaps the guy being carried off his feet with dudes with machine guns all around him was a giveaway?

[Jamalisms]

On 11/19/2023 at 11:15 PM, Starkiller said:

https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-774078
 

The Shin Bet and the IDF on Sunday night disclosed a video showing Hamas bringing back two foreign hostages, a Thai man and a Nepalese man, to Al-Shifa Hospital on October 7.

 

One video shows a group of Hamas terrorists dragging a man into one of the hospital entrances, clearly against his will since he openly resists, though he is overpowered.

 

Another video shows a man on a stretcher who appears to have been wounded in his chest, with a large amount of blood coming out, as well as with one of his legs severed.

 

And there's what I was wondering. Gotta be a lot more background footage they've watched.