Tannehill on throws > 15 air yards…

[SleepingTitan]

11 minutes ago, oldschool said:

 

Its hilarious that you don't realize that vid actually supports the opposite stance of reo's. Its clear as day. Hot reads and sight adjusts are built into the offense. You don't call a hot read at the line and change it. He basically said you can change the hot read/sigh adjust in between series to a different route as long as everyone knows the change is coming.

Are you trying to say that QBs don't call hot reads and designate a new, quicker route assignment at the LOS?

[reo]

2 minutes ago, oldschool said:

 

Thats not changing. Thats calling out the prebuilt read based on the defensive alignment. Its not an audible. You seem to be conflating the two.

 

No, it's a hot route, dude and exactly what i was talking about. My original comment was this:

 

Put the RB in motion. Send him to the left w/ a hot route to the flat. You'll either quickly see which LB/S is covering him or it'll be an easy pitch and catch 1st down b/c the LB will be out of position to cover him in the flat. 

 

^^ That is w/ the assumption that he has that capability in the offense to made that presnap adjustment.

 

here's Brady doing almost exactly that:

 

https://www.pff.com/news/pro-why-the-patriots-have-the-best-short-pass-game-in-the-nfl-brady-gronkowski-amendola

 

Below is the setup of the first play to start the second half in the Pats’ playoff game against the Chiefs.

 

 

 

The press on the outside and head-up alignments elsewhere with a safety in the middle of the field strongly suggests man coverage (the Chiefs are also a very man-heavy team). Brady sees that the coverage has also isolated Rob Gronkowski on Tyvon Branch. Advantage: New England. Brady resets the formation into what we see below to capitalize on this mismatch.

 

 

 

Offenses do have that capability.

[SleepingTitan]

There are two different ways hot routes come into play. Pre-designated and when a QB essentially calls an audible at the LOS that only changes 1 player's assignment. Not all QBs even have the authority to do the latter. Some ain't even allowed to audible unless instructed to 

[oldschool]

1 minute ago, SleepingTitan said:

There are two different ways hot routes come into play. Pre-designated and when a QB essentially calls an audible at the LOS that only changes 1 player's assignment. Not all QBs even have the authority to do the latter. Some ain't even allowed to audible unless instructed to 

 

we aren't tallking about audibles. We are talking about a QB changing a hot route without calling an audible which is what reo is claiming. Its the madden effect.

[BudsOilers]

There's zero evidence that this isn't anything beyond a rookie backup LG getting confused and missing an assignment.

[SleepingTitan]

2 minutes ago, oldschool said:

 

we aren't tallking about audibles. We are talking about a QB changing a hot route without calling an audible which is what reo is claiming. Its the madden effect.

FWIW it's still possible without an audible -- though only a QB/WR that have a great relationship and history would attempt it. I've seen interviews where like Manning or Rodgers would have a signal or a code word for a "hot route" without audible. Most of the time they've been chatting about looking for the opportunity throughout the game and both see it at LOS. 

 

But like I said, I'd like to see RT throw that shit in the dirt once in a while. It's something that has to be practiced and he has to be aware at all times where his "get out of jail" throw is

[titanruss]

Old School is getting stuck on the word "audible" as a predetermined play with a team wide change... when that's just the Madden definition. You can "call an audible" for a single WR, all of them, or the entire skill set player group.  You can "audible" to a different pass protection... or... You can audible to an entirely new play.

 

Audible literally just means a spoken instruction to make a play change... whether that be a tiny thing or an entirely new play.

 

How the fuck he doesnt know this is really damn funny.

 

Whether Tannehill has the ability to do this or not is a different matter but he is supposed to have a whole whole whole lot more control this year over most aspects.

Edited Tuesday at 09:03 PM by titanruss

[reo]

3 minutes ago, BudsOilers said:

I think the issue isn't so much that they didn't have the right protection call.  It's far more likely that Newman, playing in his first actual NFL game, didn't handle his assignment because he froze.  It's NOT coincidental that he only had 3 more snaps where he didn't handle a stunt very well from Bosa on the 3rd down sack).

 

 

 

I can't say you're wrong w/o knowing the line calls, just as you can't definitively say I am. But I find it move believable that the offense just misread it. You've got an ILB in the A gap and you've got an ILB in the B gap. 1 could be coming or both. The only signal would be the safety on that side. He came down like he was in man on a WR or RB on that side. That would seem to indicate that one or both of the ILBs are blitzing. If you can't tell which, you block both. The only way I could think to identify which would be if the offense allowed Tannehill to put the RB in motion and see who follows him. I don't know if it does. So you block both and hit your hot route b/c a chip on an OLB could go poorly quick. That would mean put Newman on Kendricks. Dillard on Murray and chip the OLB w/ the RB to buy time. And get the ball out quick, possibly to Hopkins.

 

They seemed to think that Murray was dropping and Kendricks was coming and set up the blocking assignments for that.... and they got us.

 

3 minutes ago, BudsOilers said:

It makes perfect sense to see Dillard focus on the edge guy. I agree Spears was indeed chipping but they clearly aren't calling on a RB to account for a clear edge rusher.

 

It'd be just about buying just enough time to get a quick pass off which is evident by the fact that Spears pretty much took him out of the play w/ his chip. If Tannehill had even half a second to throw, he hits either Hopkins or leads Spears w/ a throw to the flat.

 

3 minutes ago, BudsOilers said:

It's as simple as that with the concept being a quick throw to Hopkins as the primary with Spears as the secondary.

 

It's very possible Hopkins would be the primary. Arguing against it is really just being contrary to be honest. It's just that Spears would've been open too and i've seen tons of QBs hit that throw after the RB chips the DE or OLB. 

[pat]

@SleepingTitanI think you are too concerned about yards lost on a sack on 3rd down.

Here's every sack, followed by the next play:

 

The first sack, on 4th and 4, gave up field position.  That was pretty bad.  Chargers got 3 points on the next drive.  That also was the jail break sack where Murray was unblocked.

The next 4 sacks were all followed up by a 60+ yard punt from Stonehouse.  Sure the hypothetical "throw the ball" away plays would stop the clock and save a few yards.  But it's not as impactful as you make it out to be.

[BudsOilers]

Honestly the only sack I'd put on Tannehill was the botched screen and even then I think he was afraid of a TO there.  There were a bunch of bodies in the path to get it close to Spears.

[lazyLurker]

 

 

Man, I love the ignore function.  It saved me from this cesspool of organized stupidity

[TF_Titan]

18 minutes ago, lazyLurker said:

 

 

Man, I love the ignore function.  It saved me from this cesspool of organized stupidity

 

I almost posted a similar screen shot earlier. It's always easy to tell when ABT is triggered.

[IrishTitansFan]

7 hours ago, reo said:

 

 

What am I deflecting from or to?

 

I'm not the one saying hot routes don't exist except in madden.

 

You said Tannehill should have sent Spears out into the flat without knowing what hot routes are built into that play/their playbook/ that player/that formation 

 

You clearly didn’t know what a hot route really was, posted an article that contradicted what you were saying and then got mad and moved the goalposts when you realised you looked dumb 

 

This might not be the sport for you

[OILERMAN]

Newman didn't pick up the stunt, end of story. He was benched because of it(and other plays)

 

Where is reo's crazy ass brother. I'm starting to miss him

[SleepingTitan]

4 hours ago, pat said:

@SleepingTitanI think you are too concerned about yards lost on a sack on 3rd down.

Here's every sack, followed by the next play:

 

The first sack, on 4th and 4, gave up field position.  That was pretty bad.  Chargers got 3 points on the next drive.  That also was the jail break sack where Murray was unblocked.

The next 4 sacks were all followed up by a 60+ yard punt from Stonehouse.  Sure the hypothetical "throw the ball" away plays would stop the clock and save a few yards.  But it's not as impactful as you make it out to be.

I appreciate the data, and I somewhat agree. It is extremely impactful over the long run. Teams get 11-12 drives per game. (I'd be interested to see data on how many sack included drives result in punt/loss of downs/turnover. 

 

If a QB takes a sack, especially a back pedaling one like Tannehill took, they're probably giving up that drive. Teams averaged <11 drives per game in 2022. If you're giving up 33-50% of your drives because of sacks (regardless of why) it needs to be addressed.