Looming Default

[tgo]

 

[tgo]

15 minutes ago, ctm said:

 Which fails to address the issue I raised.  You think waiving the white flag to republicans is a legitimate option.

 

they either need to cave or invoke the 14th....

They’re already in the process of caving. A little more caving should get a deal across the finish line - not hearing any changes of much serious consequence in the grand scheme of things. Both sides just need to be able to convincingly sell any budget deal as a win. 
 

They’re already past the point of no return on the 14th amendment - it can’t be done in time without defaulting anyway. 

Edited May 22, 2023 by tgo

[ctm]

2 minutes ago, tgo said:

They’re already in the process of caving. A little more caving should get a deal across the finish line - not hearing any changes of much serious consequence in the grand scheme of things. Both sides just need to be able to convincingly sell any budget deal as a win. 
 

They’re already past the point of no return on the 14th amendment - it can’t be done in time without defaulting anyway. 

 

Negotiating isn't the same thing as caving.  Keep trying.

[tgo]

12 minutes ago, ctm said:

 

Negotiating isn't the same thing as caving.  Keep trying.

Biden initially had the position of not negotiating at all. He caved and they’re negotiating after all, on Republican terms. 
 

Technically he can say he‘s only negotiating on the budget and not the debt limit as a good way to save face- but that’s not the reality. 

Edited May 22, 2023 by tgo

[ctm]

31 minutes ago, tgo said:

Biden initially had the position of not negotiating at all. He caved and they’re negotiating after all, on Republican terms. 
 

Technically he can say he‘s only negotiating on the budget and not the debt limit as a good way to save face- but that’s not the reality. 

 Negotiating:  each side gives a little and gets something in return

Caving:  giving in to the other sides position

 

You advocated  Biden caving as a legitimate option.

Edited May 22, 2023 by ctm

[Starkiller]

1 hour ago, tgo said:

Biden initially had the position of not negotiating at all. He caved and they’re negotiating after all, on Republican terms. 
 

Technically he can say he‘s only negotiating on the budget and not the debt limit as a good way to save face- but that’s not the reality. 

It looks better politically for Biden to show that he’s willing to negotiate then not agree to a deal than to outright refuse to negotiate. The question is how far he’s willing to go.

[Starkiller]

1 hour ago, tgo said:

They’re already past the point of no return on the 14th amendment - it can’t be done in time without defaulting anyway. 

No, there isn’t any sort of legislative deadline involved. They just say the debt limit is unconstitutional because of the 14th Amendment and just go on as normal borrowing. 

Edited May 23, 2023 by Starkiller

[tgo]

1 hour ago, Starkiller said:

No, there isn’t any sort of legislative deadline involved. They just say the debt limit is unconstitutional because of the 14th Amendment and just go on as normal borrowing. 

Biden: 'I think we have the authority. The question is could it be done and invoked in time that it would not be appealed and, as a consequence, pass the date in question and still default on the debt?'

 

I guess you could go full Andrew Jackson and just ignore a federal injunction, but that could trigger resignations. It’s been pretty obvious that Yellen is opposed to the 14th amendment route and says it is legally dubious, so there’s a chance they’d have to get her to resign first. 

[Starkiller]

13 minutes ago, tgo said:

Biden: 'I think we have the authority. The question is could it be done and invoked in time that it would not be appealed and, as a consequence, pass the date in question and still default on the debt?'

 

I guess you could go full Andrew Jackson and just ignore a federal injunction, but that could trigger resignations. It’s been pretty obvious that Yellen is opposed to the 14th amendment route and says it is legally dubious, so there’s a chance they’d have to get her to resign first. 

Yes, you just ignore the debt ceiling. And if there’s an injunction then it goes to the Supreme Court.

 

Yellen isn’t going to push the country into default. She might not like it, but she isn’t going to throw the economy into chaos. 

 

Or at the very least, you make sure the GOP knows that they have no power here. Either they pass a debt limit increase or they lose that leverage for good. 

[heyitsmeallen]

2 hours ago, Starkiller said:

It looks better politically for Biden to show that he’s willing to negotiate then not agree to a deal than to outright refuse to negotiate. The question is how far he’s willing to go.

Enough pandering by the Dem party! They are weak as hell and they always give in to this kind of thing.  Have a damn backbone and use your power as President when the other side isn’t acting in good faith. Biden should have declared the debt ceiling unconstitutional In January but the Dems are weak. We wouldn’t even be in the situation if Trump didn’t have the third highest increase to the national debt in USA history. Now the GOP is acting like it’s the DEMS fault the debt is so high. The same thing has happened multiple times in history and we just keep repeating the same shit. 

[nine]

16 hours ago, heyitsmeallen said:

We wouldn’t even be in the situation if Trump didn’t have the third highest increase to the national debt in USA history. Now the GOP is acting like it’s the DEMS fault the debt is so high. The same thing has happened multiple times in history and we just keep repeating the same shit. 

The Federal Reserve Bank of St Louis has interesting tool that shows the annual federal budget deficit for every year since 1900.  
 

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/FYFSD#

 

Ever since Gerald Ford took office in 1974, It’s absolutely uncanny how the federal budget deficit has gone into a steady nosedive every single time a Republican President has been in office….but then showed steady and dramatic improvement every time a Democrat was in office .  
 

It’s a bit ironic… the folks that are  constantly preaching fiscal responsibility can’t even figure out how to set a budget and stick to it.  
 

And then the Democrats are the ones who have to come in and try to clean it up….while the GOP has the nerve to complain about the mess they  created. 

[OILERMAN]

THE TWO SANTAS STRATEGY: HOW THE GOP HAS USED AN ECONOMIC SCAM TO MANIPULATE AMERICANS FOR 40 YEARS

 

First, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.

 

This produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”

Second, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.

 

This will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.

 

And, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.

 

And, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.

[ctm]

There's a third Santa.

 

Claim that cutting taxes will produce a net more revenue.  That's exactly what Trump, Mnuchin, Kudlow, etc. said when they enacted their tax cut which ended up being a lie and running up the deficit.

 

This strategy dates back to Reagan and then Paul Ryan.

 

Santa will bring us more net money if we just cut taxes.

[VaTitan]

6 hours ago, OILERMAN said:

THE TWO SANTAS STRATEGY: HOW THE GOP HAS USED AN ECONOMIC SCAM TO MANIPULATE AMERICANS FOR 40 YEARS

 

First, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.

 

This produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”

 

 

Unfortunately its a very effective strategy because most people live check to check and are in debt with little financial freedom.  Their livelihood depends on a stimulated economy and they will convince themselves its a good idea, even if deep down they know its not.

[tgo]