NBA Playoffs

[IrishTitansFan]

22 hours ago, OILERMAN said:

Value over replacement

How much a player contributes compared to an average NBA player.

 

 

Jordan'116.1 

 

James 146.1(#1 all time)

That is totals, Jordan is way above Lebron in this metric. 6 seasons over 10 including a ridiculous 12.5, to Lebrons 2 seasons over 10

 

 

 

[OILERMAN]

The amount of hate LeBron gets because he isn't Jordan is laughable

 

LeBron took 10 teams to the finals and a lot of those teams had no business making it and his supporting cast was a joke. MJ wouldn't have beaten the Spurs if you traded out LeBron for Jordan. 

 

There are too many variables to make a fair comparison but it's not a landslide

[Bink]

7 hours ago, OILERMAN said:

There are too many variables to make a fair comparison but it's not a landslide

 

I agree with this. I think Jordan's cultural impact pushes him over the edge but some of the arguments made in his favor are downright laughable and prove that armchair NBA fans are the worst of the worst. 

 

At the end of the day I think the GOAT conversation is stupid and pointless and that there is no GOAT. There are a handful of NBA players with accomplishments that are so unique they are in a pantheon of their own. LeBron is such a player. 

 

He is the only star athlete in any major sport to lead 3 different cities to a championship. Sure, role players have gotten it done, but he's the only leader to take 3 different teams, 3 different coaches to the promised land. He had more hype than anyone in the history of the game as he entered the league and he delivered. He's thrived in the age with the most scrutiny (social and the constant noise of the day would have killed Jordan). 

 

When I see arguments like "he's never taken over a game", it's clear folks have not been watching the same LeBron I have. What he has done in his battles with GS alone is incredible. 

 

 

[pat]

Jordan vs Lebron is similar to that common argument about max impact vs longevity conversation.

If you take a look at the per-season VORP records the impact of Jordan leaps out (link)

[Number9]

MJ is family.

 

The best BB Player of all time in Oscar Robertson. The Big O

 

LeBron is just too close to MJ's era to beat him out and be the G.O.A.T.

[abenjami]

On 5/25/2023 at 10:07 AM, Bink said:

At the end of the day I think the GOAT conversation is stupid and pointless and that there is no GOAT.

 

This is exactly where I'm at and you made some good points about LeBron.

 

Basketball is a team sport.  As @OILERMAN correctly stated, there's just too many variables to make a fair comparison.

 

It's hard to argue against Jordan's success with back to back 3-peats (minus the year off).  No one has done that again and probably never will.  In his prime Jordan was also pretty much in his own tier above everyone else in the league.  He was the best player and it wasn't really debatable.  So of course he would win with a good surrounding cast.

 

Guys like Kobe and LeBron haven't had that same benefit.  They've been the best player in the league at times but not so far above everyone else like Jordan was for awhile.  That makes it harder to win, especially in a team sport.  Heck, go back further.  How many rings would Kareem and Magic have if Bird, the Celtics and the Pistons didn't exist?  How many rings would Bird have if Kareem, Magic, and the Pistons didn't exist? 

 

But if you look at his entire career, he certainly wasn't the GOAT in the years before or after those championships.  And he lacks the longevity of some other all time greats.

 

Here's more the way I look at things now.  Jordan changed the way the game was played.  So did LeBron.  And so did Steph.  Before them so did Kareem.  All are greats, too many variables to compare.

Edited May 28 by abenjami

[abenjami]

Back to the OP, holy fuck what a last 4 minutes for a game 6.

[Bink]

15 hours ago, abenjami said:

Back to the OP, holy fuck what a last 4 minutes for a game 6.

 

This game was truly crazy. Psychologically, it will be interesting to see if the Heat can respond. 

 

It is true there are so many variables. Each generation brings more advancement in the game--this development does matter. Jordan played in a time where he was hand checked and smacked around, sure. He also was able to 1 v 1 a lot of guys most of the time and he and Pippen were outliers on defense. Imagine those guys in the era of 3 and D wings and switchable athletes at any position? 

 

Imagine Bird in this era with better medical teams and practices and more 3 point shooting. Bird would be a nightmare. 

Edited May 28 by Bink

[abenjami]

What a disappointing game 7. 

 

(And I'm partly saying this at the start of the 4th quarter hoping to jinx myself and see this turn epic.)

Edited Tuesday at 02:15 AM by abenjami

[Oilertattoo]

 

Edited Tuesday at 02:19 PM by Oilertattoo

[Number9]

The finals might turn out better than I thought.  Miami looked out of gas tonight.  Shots short.  All their lanes blocked.  I think Denver wins, but Miami needs to keep the games closer.   I'm not interested in watching blowouts.