ctm Posted September 13 Report Share Posted September 13 Biden just purchased a 25M ad buy that micro targets specific voters in 7 swing states. IsntLifeFunny, pamo9, titanruss, and 1 other 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgo Posted September 13 Author Report Share Posted September 13 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bink Posted September 13 Report Share Posted September 13 On 9/8/2023 at 11:42 AM, begooode said: Plainly Biden is a poor speaker and/or is not received well. He absolutely needs to have surrogates champion his accomplishments. His best speaker, Buttieieg, gets shut out from many listeners because of his sexuality, imo. Kamala is unpopular, lacks authenticity, and reminds everyone that she's next in line if something were to happen to Biden. Joe's never been a great candidate, a great messenger and it's costing him when people 'feel like' things are not going well. Not to be a dick, but absolutely none of this is coming from watching Biden speak or analyzing fuck all what Biden or Kamala are actually doing or saying and we all should know that. The American public are forming their opinion based on spammy tiktoks, social media, echo chambers, youtube and foxnews confirmation bias. As others have noted numerously, the right wing media machine is massive and those with an unfavorable opinion are consuming things like conservative talk radio and foxnews for which there is not even remotely a liberal equivalent. The people on the fence about Biden are consuming media that similarly casts things in an unrealistic light on the basis of hoping to appear "fair." But the idea that strong opinions of Biden are mostly formed by an analysis of the person himself is an incredible oversimplification, and I would love to see anyone prove otherwise by citing the last time they listened to a Biden speak and summarize what he talked about compared the the sheer volume of shit. Just look at what is posted on this board. Twitter, tiktok, and articles from questionable sources. Rinse and repeat. People that use the "messaging problem" talking point are full of shit. Starkiller, headhunter, IsntLifeFunny, and 1 other 2 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgo Posted Tuesday at 02:00 PM Author Report Share Posted Tuesday at 02:00 PM MadMax, headhunter, and Come on Titans 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
begooode Posted Tuesday at 05:15 PM Report Share Posted Tuesday at 05:15 PM (edited) On 9/13/2023 at 2:26 PM, Bink said: ...But the idea that strong opinions of Biden are mostly formed by an analysis of the person himself is an incredible oversimplification, and I would love to see anyone prove otherwise by citing the last time they listened to a Biden speak and summarize what he talked about compared the the sheer volume of shit. Just look at what is posted on this board. Twitter, tiktok, and articles from questionable sources. Rinse and repeat. People that use the "messaging problem" talking point are full of shit. This is disappointing, but I hope you feel better by shouting down the naysayer even if you had to move the goalposts -- it's rare that any presidential candidate is afforded a "deep-dive analysis of the person himself" of their communications. It doesn't happen and most speeches / meaningful communications are distilled into bullshit gotchas and oversimplifications including memes that are embraced in some cases (ex: Dark Brandon). Agreed, the right wing media has indeed become toxic to American democracy in a way that's so callous that it can rightly be characterized as a coordinated attack to US principles. That said, for an idiot criminal like Trump to be as close as he is in polling to the most powerful person in the world who has done a reasonably good job is a failure beyond the influence of the right wing media. Period. "People aren't getting know Biden!" is an excuse, imo, that dismissively avoids a potentially larger issue -- many, if not most people, don't WANT to get to know him. Watching him speak is an uncomfortable experience (his tweets are much better), and many use the euphemism of saying he's "too old" as a proxy for his lack of inspiring confidence (and , yes, like a CEO it's a critical part of the job requirements). You don't hear the same level of concern about many of his contemporaries. Biden was never a great candidate primarily because of his communications weaknesses, just the safest Not Trump guy, and significant polling shows Biden only defeats Trump and not the other repub candidates, despite his impressive bipartisan accomplishments. After the Afghanistan withdrawal, Biden lost the trust of a LOT of Americans and he has been unable to rebuild it. It's +2 years later and now on the downside of covid, he owns this. Again, diminishing counter opinions with pejoratives as 'full of shit talking points' while ignoring significant quantified concerns and making excuses for the guy holding down the most powerful job in the world is a bit pathetic. Disagree/disparage all you want, but it seems Biden's very real political wins for the US economy in this incredibly polarized era are trailing uniquely behind his performance ratings/polling results. Meanwhile the real idiot at the podium, Donald "inject bleach" Trump, should not even be polling within 20 points with true independents. https://www.politico.com/news/2023/08/01/biden-trump-2024-poll-00109161 https://www.reuters.com/graphics/USA-BIDEN/POLL/nmopagnqapa/ Edited Tuesday at 09:00 PM by begooode headhunter 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bink Posted Tuesday at 05:43 PM Report Share Posted Tuesday at 05:43 PM 13 minutes ago, begooode said: This is disappointing, but I hope you feel better by shouting down the naysayer even if you had to move the goalposts -- it's rare that any presidential candidate is afforded a "deep-dive analysis of the person himself" of their communications. It doesn't happen and most speeches / meaningful communications are distilled into bullshit gotchas and oversimplifications including memes that are embraced in some cases (ex: Dark Brandon). Agreed, the right wing media has indeed become toxic to American democracy in a way that's so callous that it can rightly be characterized as a coordinated attack to US principals. That said, for an idiot criminal like Trump to be as close as he is in polling to the most powerful person in the world who has done a reasonably good job is a failure beyond the influence of the right wing media. Period. "People aren't getting know Biden!" is an excuse, imo, that dismissively avoids a potential larger issue -- many, if not most people, don't WANT to get to know him. Watching him speak is an uncomfortable experience (his tweets are much better), and many use the euphemism of saying he's "too old" as a proxy for his lack of inspiring confidence (and , yes, like a CEO it's a critical part of the job requirements). You don't hear the same level of concern about many of his contemporaries. Biden was never a great candidate primarily because of his communications weaknesses, just the safest Not Trump guy, and significant polling shows Biden only defeats Trump and not the other repub candidates, despite his impressive bipartisan accomplishments. After the Afghanistan withdrawal, Biden lost the trust of a LOT of Americans and he has been unable to rebuild it. It's +2 years later and now on the downside of covid, he owns this. Again, diminishing counter opinions with pejoratives as full of shit "talking points" while ignoring significant quantified concerns and making excuses for the guy holding down the most powerful job in the world is a bit pathetic. Disagree/disparage all you want, but it seems Biden's very real political wins for the US economy in this incredibly polarized era are trailing uniquely behind his performance ratings/polling results, and the real idiot at the podium, Donald "inject bleach" Trump, should not even be polling within 20 points with true independents. https://www.politico.com/news/2023/08/01/biden-trump-2024-poll-00109161 https://www.reuters.com/graphics/USA-BIDEN/POLL/nmopagnqapa/ Here's my question for you---what would you have Biden do? I am far and away a Biden truther, and didn't criticize your post with any kind of vehemency in mind, only I see a lot of posts like this and my perspective is that fixating on Biden is goalpost moving. Sometimes it feels like folks are waiting for a magic bullet in terms of messaging. Whether it's a rhetorical shift, the second coming of Obama, I don't know what. For those that reject Biden in favor of Trump or are in different to Biden given what Trump is saying and doing on a daily basis, I don't know how or why messaging can solve the problem and I don't think there's anything Biden could humanly do to severe this discord and disconnect with both reality and the American idea. The performance and poling numbers you cite concern me too--but I just can't participate in political discourse when it feels like folks want to present these things as if we are functioning in a normal political context and that the American people's sense or approval of Biden has been formed through traditional means. I agree that "people aren't getting to know Biden" is an excuse. I agree Biden is probably not the strongest candidate, and I have my own criticisms of the democratic political apparatus. I suppose the difference between our perspectives here is the idea of what is or what isn't beyond the right wing media and other conservative systems at work in this country. Conservative momentum is powerfully rooted in a culture war, and that we are seeing dystopian, dysfunctional, dictatorial, un-American, drink bleak Donald capture this much power, momentum, and attention is harrowing in a way I don't think can be undersold. It's a serious question--what can Biden even do, that isn't being overwhelmingly rejected but embraced? I supposed I used the term "bullshit", because I think we have bigger problems than pure messaging. Maybe I'm wrong, and if you feel that way by all means continue to do so. I am genuinely interested in hearing how people believe the hearts and minds of this iteration of the American people can be changed. IsntLifeFunny, ChemEngr79, and headhunter 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
begooode Posted Tuesday at 06:59 PM Report Share Posted Tuesday at 06:59 PM (edited) On 9/19/2023 at 1:43 PM, Bink said: Here's my question for you---what would you have Biden do? I am far and away a Biden truther, and didn't criticize your post with any kind of vehemency in mind, only I see a lot of posts like this and my perspective is that fixating on Biden is goalpost moving. Sometimes it feels like folks are waiting for a magic bullet in terms of messaging. Whether it's a rhetorical shift, the second coming of Obama, I don't know what. For those that reject Biden in favor of Trump or are in different to Biden given what Trump is saying and doing on a daily basis, I don't know how or why messaging can solve the problem and I don't think there's anything Biden could humanly do to severe this discord and disconnect with both reality and the American idea. The performance and poling numbers you cite concern me too--but I just can't participate in political discourse when it feels like folks want to present these things as if we are functioning in a normal political context and that the American people's sense or approval of Biden has been formed through traditional means. I agree that "people aren't getting to know Biden" is an excuse. I agree Biden is probably not the strongest candidate, and I have my own criticisms of the democratic political apparatus. I suppose the difference between our perspectives here is the idea of what is or what isn't beyond the right wing media and other conservative systems at work in this country. Conservative momentum is powerfully rooted in a culture war, and that we are seeing dystopian, dysfunctional, dictatorial, un-American, drink bleak Donald capture this much power, momentum, and attention is harrowing in a way I don't think can be undersold. It's a serious question--what can Biden even do, that isn't being overwhelmingly rejected but embraced? I supposed I used the term "bullshit", because I think we have bigger problems than pure messaging. Maybe I'm wrong, and if you feel that way by all means continue to do so. I am genuinely interested in hearing how people believe the hearts and minds of this iteration of the American people can be changed. Biden is who he is, and this situation is precisely what was worried about 4 years ago, including a right wing media disconnected from truth, pumping invective into a fragile US. If Biden wants to contradict himself (I will be a bridge to the next generation of leadership, he intimated in 2020) and win another 4 years despite his 2yr old lagging polling numbers that's for him and his team to make the case, knowing full well the headwinds against him. Nothing is new here and no goalposts have been moved regarding Biden. If anything, he changed from his original statement concerning another term. fwiw, I am likely conflating 'messaging' with the communicator, but I think that's a reasonable perspective given that people form their opinions of overall trust of a leader -- how they convey themselves -- versus the content of specific messages. Biden is fine in 1v1 with Trump , as Biden's sober demeanor contrasts well with Trump's lunatic fringe. However, for stump speeches Biden is likely better served by having other skilled pros do this on his behalf as much as possible. Additionally we need to find 3 Buttigieg clones to fearlessly enter the right wing media sphere at every opportunity and just spit the facts to the baseless narratives; and deconstruct the latest outrage du jour. Additionally, the social media market over the last 3 years has much more anti-Trump programming. This should be used fully by the dems and independents to not only highlight Trump and MAGA's governing deficiencies, but also to callout the fact that much of the MSM continues to downplay the outright extremism and lack of political ideals currently controlling the power within the zealously tribal GOP. These people are not conservatives and have embraced an anti-democratic mindset that extends beyond Trump (ex: Paxton), and the animus from us normies against their worldview will grow through 2024, imo. Edited Thursday at 06:12 PM by begooode headhunter 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Guapo Posted Tuesday at 07:19 PM Report Share Posted Tuesday at 07:19 PM 5 hours ago, tgo said: You seem a much better man than to quote anything from these fucking hacks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkiller Posted Tuesday at 07:54 PM Report Share Posted Tuesday at 07:54 PM 34 minutes ago, El Guapo said: You seem a much better man than to quote anything from these fucking hacks. The Lincoln Project are hacks because… what? They don’t like Trump? MadMax 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IsntLifeFunny Posted Tuesday at 10:36 PM Report Share Posted Tuesday at 10:36 PM The fact Trump is anywhere close n the polls is a symptom of the insanity of our country. The fact Biden is the best bet against Trump is a symptom of how far the system has deteriorated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Guapo Posted Tuesday at 10:50 PM Report Share Posted Tuesday at 10:50 PM 2 hours ago, Starkiller said: The Lincoln Project are hacks because… what? They don’t like Trump? Not just dislike and you know it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Guapo Posted Tuesday at 10:58 PM Report Share Posted Tuesday at 10:58 PM 15 minutes ago, IsntLifeFunny said: The fact Trump is anywhere close n the polls is a symptom of the insanity of our country. The fact Biden is the best bet against Trump is a symptom of how far the system has deteriorated. Not wrong except the insanity comment. What you and others in this leftist echo chamber is that most people are sick and tired of the immigration disaster that is unfolding, the rampant crime and the failure to do anything about it, the chronic increase in spending with little to show for it, etc etc. I mean seriously , what the fuck are you guys smoking that you think hating the current state of the country is acceptable? I know… its really not happening… its just propaganda. You guys are so full of shit you havre no idea. And yes, if the Republicans had any brains, they would support someone like Youngkin who would destroy Joe. As it is we are stuck with Trump. OK. Better than this current douchebag in charge. headhunter, and WG53 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IsntLifeFunny Posted Tuesday at 11:01 PM Report Share Posted Tuesday at 11:01 PM 1 minute ago, El Guapo said: Not wrong except the insanity comment. What you and others in this leftist echo chamber is that most people are sick and tired of the immigration disaster that is unfolding, the rampant crime and the failure to do anything about it, the chronic increase in spending with little to show for it, etc etc. I mean seriously , what the fuck are you guys smoking that you think hating the current state of the country is acceptable? I know… its really not happening… its just propaganda. You guys are so full of shit you havre no idea. And yes, if the Republicans had any brains, they would support someone like Youngkin who would destroy Joe. As it is we are stuck with Trump. OK. Better than this current douchebag in charge. The Republicans tried to overthrow Democracy. It's literally in the federal court system as well as a RICO charge in Georgia. Shut up. headhunter 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IsntLifeFunny Posted Tuesday at 11:03 PM Report Share Posted Tuesday at 11:03 PM Oh my Gawd we are being replaced with brown people and trans! That's the Republican mantra. Their representative from 2012 has been paying 5k a day to protect his family from the mongrels who supported him a decade ago. Fuck out of here with the both sides stupidity. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkiller Posted Tuesday at 11:06 PM Report Share Posted Tuesday at 11:06 PM (edited) 5 minutes ago, IsntLifeFunny said: The Republicans tried to overthrow Democracy. It's literally in the federal court system as well as a RICO charge in Georgia. Shut up. Yeah, but Democrats want to give everyone healthcare! That can not stand! Edited Tuesday at 11:06 PM by Starkiller MadMax 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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