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Gruden Stepping Down as Raiders Coach


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I don't support the owners or the league or whatever. I agree that many of them probably have similar beliefs. I have no way of knowing that, though, and thus no way of knowing which ones I should condemn as I've been condemning Gruden. When I watch the NFL, I'm cheering for my team, for the players, etc. What stand do you want me to take in this? Should I stop watching the NFL because it's possible (or likely) that some owners, coaches, players are also shitty people even though I don't know which ones (or even have full proof that they are at all)?

 

I know Goodell is using this to get rid of Gruden, but Gruden still said these things and still believes them. Show me that one of our players, coaches, owners does too, and I'll say the same things about them.

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Well racists, sexists, and homophobes often get caught saying lots of racist, sexist, and homophobic shit. The rest of us do not because we just don’t have any reason to say racist, sexist, or homopho

Dumbass put it all in email. 

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1 minute ago, unauthorizedcinnamon said:

According to who? Obviously not the locker room guys, as they've laid an egg vs the Bears.

There were several players past and present that came out to support him. He also didn't resign until all other shit got leaked. You don't think the NFL had an agenda on leaking the information? They thought the lip comment would do him in and it didn't so they kept releasing more. They had access to all of the emails and knew everything he said. 

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3 minutes ago, CaliTitan3518 said:

There were several players past and present that came out to support him. He also didn't resign until all other shit got leaked. You don't think the NFL had an agenda on leaking the information? They thought the lip comment would do him in and it didn't so they kept releasing more. They had access to all of the emails and knew everything he said. 

Do you not think he would not lose the locker room over the lip comment? Yes or no?

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1 hour ago, Mythos27 said:

Most racists ARE Trump supporters. They're among his most vocal voting block and he values them enough to say that there are "good people on both sides" when one of them kills someone by running them over with a car. That doesn't mean that all or even most Trump supporters are and I said that explicitly. I didn't imply shit and was very purposeful with the words I used. If that hurt your feelings, tough.

 

Are there some racists on the other side? I'm sure there are but do they exist in near the numbers, have the same influence, or are nearly a loud? No. No the fuck they don't. They certainly don't have a sitting president obviously dog whistling to them before the entire world. You're not going to "same thing, both sides" me man. I'm not going to be gaslit. What hell would racists get from being Democrats anyways? Think they just can't wait to get black people economic justice, racial justice, and free healthcare? Give me a fucking break.

Jon Gruden will be the new poster child for the right.

Just watch.

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An article up on the Ringer makes some damning links between Gruden's comments and his staffing history.

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2021/10/12/22722678/jon-gruden-emails-resignation-raiders-coach 

 

Quote

But this isn’t just about Gruden’s emails or words. It’s what they indicate about the culture he fostered. Despite coaching a diverse team, Gruden repeatedly expressed that he doesn’t believe Black people, gay people, and women are qualified for jobs in the NFL. That’s not just an indictment of Gruden; it’s an indictment of everyone who enabled him, and a league that limits opportunities for those who don’t look like him.

Take Gruden’s comments about Smith, which insulted both his appearance and his intelligence. Now square them with Gruden’s decision-making over his 15 years as an NFL head coach. Between his tenures with the Raiders and Buccaneers, he has given snaps to only one Black quarterback: Shaun King, who was already on the Tampa Bay roster when Gruden was hired in 2002. None of Gruden’s past eight offensive or defensive coordinators have been Black. His only Black coordinator was Willie Shaw, who worked as the Raiders DC in 1998 and 1999. When Shaw was abruptly fired in 1999 after helping the Raiders go from 28th to 16th in points allowed in two seasons, Gruden and Allen tried to spin it as allowing Shaw to pursue head-coaching opportunities. Shaw never became a head coach; the Raiders promoted a white assistant, Chuck Bresnahan, to replace him.

The article further makes connections with Gruden's other bigoted remarks and his past-actions.

 

Maybe all of this is coincidence and in each and every case over 15 years of being a HC there was a good explanation.  

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23 minutes ago, cenj said:

 

This is going to piss some people off...

 

First off, I don't care what happens to Gruden. He said all the things about all the people, and he was dumb enough to do it on work email. And lol @ the overly-sensitive white privilege comments -- people seriously need to explain to you why white people can't use historically painful racist slurs? 

 

But to piggy back on this tweet...I agree that Gruden doesn't make this comment unless he's super comfortable and feels in a safe space to do it. Which means all these other white guys say (and think shit just like this).

 

So people need to be aware that they are being manipulated. Cancel culture is being weaponized by other racist/shitty wealthy people for what's probably a personal grudge. 

 

And yet many of the people saying "fuck Gruden," and making big shows about how this behavior isn't acceptable today, are going to continue watching the NFL and supporting a league that: protects racist/misogynistic/homophobic owners, pressured teams to stop players kneeling during the anthem (and blackballed Kaepernick), uses military propaganda to cater to an often racist fanbase, lied for years about concussion dangers as many black players suffer immense physical and emotional trauma, etc., etc., etc.

 

So I do think people need to reflect a bit more before throwing stones. No, some of you may not send racist emails -- so pat yourselves on the back for that. But many of the owners, coaches, players have done what Gruden has done and worse, and you aren't gonna take a stand or decry their actions in any real way. You're going to keep watching and supporting the rest of the Grudens in hiding because at the end of the day, you want what you want -- to watch football. You don't really give a shit about what any of these guys do. 

 

So at least be honest about some of the hypocrisy, and maybe come off that moral high horse. 

I actually like John Gruden. A lot. He's a great coach.

The NFL is a better league with him as coach. As long as he's not running around sending racist and sexist emails. That's on him.


And think about all the black players that have played for him. What must they be thinking this morning.

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The people that saw these emails and can't understand why Gruden no longer has a job are honestly kind of stupid, plain and simple. Its pretty cut and dry. No way can you continue coaching after it's revealed how you think about much of the population you work with.

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12 minutes ago, CreepingDeath said:

When Shaw was abruptly fired in 1999 after helping the Raiders go from 28th to 16th in points allowed in two seasons,

I’d do some weird shit for a defensive coordinator who could get us from 28th to 16 in points allowed. Maybe we can give him a call.

Edited by MikeKeith2020
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For Gruden to resign like that, something must be in those emails we have not seen yet.

Seems like this is something more than just pressure based cancel culture overreaction.

 

But Gruden’s behavior was not limited to 2011. Gruden exchanged emails with Allen and other men that included photos of women wearing only bikini bottoms, including one photo of two Washington team cheerleaders.

Gruden also criticized President Obama during his re-election campaign in 2012, as well as then-Vice President Joseph R. Biden, whom Gruden called a “nervous clueless *****.” He used similar words to describe Goodell and DeMaurice Smith, the executive director of the N.F.L. Players Association.

 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/11/sports/football/what-did-jon-gruden-say.html

 

He could run for office with an (R) by his name

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1 hour ago, cenj said:

 

This is going to piss some people off...

 

First off, I don't care what happens to Gruden. He said all the things about all the people, and he was dumb enough to do it on work email. And lol @ the overly-sensitive white privilege comments -- people seriously need to explain to you why white people can't use historically painful racist slurs? 

 

But to piggy back on this tweet...I agree that Gruden doesn't make this comment unless he's super comfortable and feels in a safe space to do it. Which means all these other white guys say (and think shit just like this).

 

So people need to be aware that they are being manipulated. Cancel culture is being weaponized by other racist/shitty wealthy people for what's probably a personal grudge. 

 

And yet many of the people saying "fuck Gruden," and making big shows about how this behavior isn't acceptable today, are going to continue watching the NFL and supporting a league that: protects racist/misogynistic/homophobic owners, pressured teams to stop players kneeling during the anthem (and blackballed Kaepernick), uses military propaganda to cater to an often racist fanbase, lied for years about concussion dangers as many black players suffer immense physical and emotional trauma, etc., etc., etc.

 

So I do think people need to reflect a bit more before throwing stones. No, some of you may not send racist emails -- so pat yourselves on the back for that. But many of the owners, coaches, players have done what Gruden has done and worse, and you aren't gonna take a stand or decry their actions in any real way. You're going to keep watching and supporting the rest of the Grudens in hiding because at the end of the day, you want what you want -- to watch football. You don't really give a shit about what any of these guys do. 

 

So at least be honest about some of the hypocrisy, and maybe come off that moral high horse. 

But you're talking about the unknowable. Of course no one is going to take any "action" nothing else has happened that is actionable. You think the next person that says shit like Gruden won't get the same smoke? Unless you're suggesting that we all have the ability to know exactly what these people say behind closed doors and are choosing to ignore it so we can watch football, I don't see how you can call any of this hypocrisy. The insinuation that the people Gruden was communicating with possibly use similar language is well taken but unless and until we have actual actionable evidence that these guys have said these things and what they said, how we can hold them accountable without becoming the lynch mob we already get accused of being? Also, if you don't hold the moral high ground against a racist, misogynist, homophobe then who do you hold the moral high ground against?

 

 

Edited by Mythos27
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