Jump to content

Is Ryan Tannehill an elite passer?


Recommended Posts

  • Replies 474
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Who cares what he did with the Dolphins?  It's irrelevant.  He's been putting up elite level performances for two seasons now.

Any list that has Kyler Murray as a better pure passer than Tannehill is a joke and shouldn't be even debated.  It tells me that this person either has no idea what they are watching  or just doesn't

Back to the original question, because it was a good one. Here is an article from 2019 that examined QB efficiency in different situations:   https://touchdownwire.usatoday.com/2020/05/14/th

Posted Images

1 hour ago, unauthorizedcinnamon said:

Why you think that is? Lol

 

It's a fair point. At the same time, Fisher didn't trust McNair early on and from his subsequent play that might have been a mistake. Was he already that capable or did he improve around 2001/2?

 

At the same time, McNair was never in a high volume passing offense, it was also always balanced. McNair also struggled in the playoffs. To his credit, outside of Mason the talent around him was subpar, he did a lot more with a lot less.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Number9 said:

Call it whatever you want, until Tannehill puts the team on his back like the guys on that list, sans Allen. It's just going to be that way.

You're absolutely right. The jury is out, and there's evidence on both sides, but there'll always be a question mark until he has games where he puts the team on his back with the back against the wall.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, unauthorizedcinnamon said:

It actually is. Watson played with a horrible roster and still was better than Tannehill when they played..... 

 

Tannehill falls in the same catg as Cousins 

 

Saying Tannehill falls into the category as Cousins seems harsh.

 

Then I looked at Cousins numbers last year. Practically identical to Tannehill.  Yikes. They both also have 1 of the 2 best runners in the league and a dominant young WR. 

 

Is Cousins underrated for being on a small market team? Is he dropped a peg below because of his teams record? Did he drop the ball in big games?

 

Russel Wilson has had a lot of his career in a balanced offense, but he's considered a top 3 passer. Why? 

 

Truth is football is the toughest sport to evaluate. You see a guy play basketball or tennis or golf what you see is what you get, way less variables and dependency on other players and scheme. One game is a 3.5 hour commitment, you might see, what, 25 throws in that time? 30?

 

I can't speak for anyone else but I can't devote the time to really watch all these guys.

 

In limited opportunity the guys who passed the eyeball test for me last year were of course Mahomes, Wilson, and Watson. All 3 make ridiculous throws all over the field both in the pocket and on the move with average run games.

 

Next I'd say Rodgers looked great when he carved us a new one, Roethlesberger looked the part against us and played well before his injury and even had some good games injured, and Brees still was dominant in the performances I saw. 

 

I only saw one game of his but Justin Herbert looks like an absolute phenom. His passing ability appears to me to be truly special like a Watson or Wilson, he's effortlessly accurate and has ice in his veins. Josh Allen looks like he was replaced by a cyborg version of himself, he's twice the player he was as a passer, holy shit. My only knock is he still seems to falter when it counted - same old Josh Allen stuff.

 

Next I'd say Brady, saw a few of his games and while his arm isn't the same he's just a good quarterback, as accurate as he is smart. His throws aren't impressive or eye popping anymore.

 

Then there's Tannehill. He reminds me of Rodgers in that he makes it look so easy at times you take it for granted. He has wheels but he's not a scrambler or guy you see making a play when the okay breaks down, but that's also because he doesn't have to, he gets the play off right when he's supposed to. Big arm, super accurate deep ball. I will say he throws it to the middle of the field way more than the edges, though he's hit those passes when called upon.

 

I'll admit Cousins did not impress me at all in his game against us. Did not seem on Tannehill's level.

 

I have never watched a full Kyler Murray game so I can't speak on him. Also didn't get to watch Matt Ryan or Matt Stafford, but both have been highly impressive to me in the past.

 

I have to say, after going through that list it's hard to call Tannehill an elite passer. It's just a lot of arm talent in the league. He's a great passer but elite to me is top 3 or 10 percent of the league's starters. You could argue top 5 but you could make just as good an argument for any of the other guys on this list too.

 

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, unauthorizedcinnamon said:

It actually is. Watson played with a horrible roster and still was better than Tannehill when they played..... 

 

Tannehill falls in the same catg as Cousins 

You say Watson performed on a horrible roster. I say he accumulated garbage stats on a 4-12 team. If the Titans were 4-12, there is no way you're giving Tannehill a pass. None. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, OILERMAN said:

 

The Bills play 3 WRs and Allen was in the shotgun most of the time, they threw the ball all over the place. 

 

Allen is vastly improved but he's still erratic and not nearly as accurate as Tannehill. 

 

Allen is on a much more pass friendly offense but he's not nearly as talented a passer. 

 

 

Tannehill's arm talent is severely underrated. I just don't think people realize how unusual it is the lead  the league in passer rating, YPA, and CPOE in the same season. This shows that you are the most efficient, most aggressive, and completely more difficult throws than any other QB...... at the same time. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, XAEA12 said:

You're absolutely right. The jury is out, and there's evidence on both sides, but there'll always be a question mark until he has games where he puts the team on his back with the back against the wall.

 

He led the league in game winning drives and 4th quarter comebacks last season. That is literally how the league measures performance with the back against the wall. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, FinFaninNOVA said:

He led the league in game winning drives and 4th quarter comebacks last season. That is literally how the league measures performance with the back against the wall. 

Wonderful point. Let me clarify.

 

I am talking about 2 things - individual playoff success and winning games when the run game sputters. 

 

He played wonderfully in that comeback against Houston, but Derrick Henry had a monster game and we needed every yard he provided. 

 

Also remember the context - we are talking about ranking players, which means we are talking about perception - ie judgment. What will it take for how he's judged and viewed to change. He can have all the 4th quarter comebacks in the world but if it's off 200 yards from DH he'll always be perceived as a notch below by the consensus - fair or not.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, XAEA12 said:

Wonderful point. Let me clarify.

 

I am talking about 2 things - individual playoff success and winning games when the run game sputters. 

 

He played wonderfully in that comeback against Houston, but Derrick Henry had a monster game and we needed every yard he provided. 

 

Also remember the context - we are talking about ranking players, which means we are talking about perception - ie judgment. What will it take for how he's judged and viewed to change. He can have all the 4th quarter comebacks in the world but if it's off 200 yards from DH he'll always be perceived as a notch below by the consensus - fair or not.

I'm fine with that perception. Problem is that it is never evenly applied. Take Russell Wilson. He made his bones handing the ball off to Beast Mode and playing with one of the best defenses in recent history. They are a heavy running team and have a pretty stacked receiving corps.  He has also had the same head coach for his entire career. Somehow the surrounding context doesn't matter as much for Wilson. 

 

IMO, Wilson and Tannehill are fairly equal and are both a notch below Mahomes and Rodgers. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, XAEA12 said:

I am talking about 2 things - individual playoff success and winning games when the run game sputters. 

 

 

One more point. If you are a team that is built to the run the ball (i.e. OL run blocks much better than it pass blocks, play a lot of multiple TE sets, has limited talent and depth at WR, has a playbook that is geared toward running the ball, has game planned and practiced all season to be balanced. etc, etc, etc) and then the running game falters AND the team fall behind because of a weak defense, is that the same situation as:

 

1. A pass happy offense falling behind? 

2. A run heavy offense struggling but their defense shutting down the other team and not falling behind?

 

I would argue NO to both. For #1 refer to KC, GB, Houston etc. For #2 refer to Seattle for much of Wilson's career. 

 

You simply cannot make such simple comparisons of individual players on a team sport. Everything is affected when your primary approach to the game is derailed, including play calling, which personnel is on the field, how the players are performing with a different focus (e.g. pass blocking in obvious passing situations vs pass blocking on play action or with extra blockers), and how the defense is playing you (e.g. pinning their ears back and rushing the QB). 

 

IMO, when the Titans fell behind, the OL needing to primarily pass block and Kalif Raymond being on the field are MUCH bigger issues than Tannehill being the QB. I fail to see how you can demonstrate otherwise. 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, FinFaninNOVA said:

 

One more point. If you are a team that is built to the run the ball (i.e. OL run blocks much better than it pass blocks, play a lot of multiple TE sets, has limited talent and depth at WR, has a playbook that is geared toward running the ball, has game planned and practiced all season to be balanced. etc, etc, etc) and then the running game falters AND the team fall behind because of a weak defense, is that the same situation as:

 

1. A pass happy offense falling behind? 

2. A run heavy offense struggling but their defense shutting down the other team and not falling behind?

 

I would argue NO to both. For #1 refer to KC, GB, Houston etc. For #2 refer to Seattle for much of Wilson's career. 

 

You simply cannot make such simple comparisons of individual players on a team sport. Everything is affected when your primary approach to the game is derailed, including play calling, which personnel is on the field, how the players are performing with a different focus (e.g. pass blocking in obvious passing situations vs pass blocking on play action or with extra blockers), and how the defense is playing you (e.g. pinning their ears back and rushing the QB). 

 

IMO, when the Titans fell behind, the OL needing to primarily pass block and Kalif Raymond being on the field are MUCH bigger issues than Tannehill being the QB. I fail to see how you can demonstrate otherwise. 

 

Completely agree. It's a totally different offensive design, and all you can do as a player is play within the system you're in.

Our OGs are not strong pass blockers.

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, FinFaninNOVA said:

I'm fine with that perception. Problem is that it is never evenly applied. Take Russell Wilson. He made his bones handing the ball off to Beast Mode and playing with one of the best defenses in recent history. They are a heavy running team and have a pretty stacked receiving corps.  He has also had the same head coach for his entire career. Somehow the surrounding context doesn't matter as much for Wilson. 

 

IMO, Wilson and Tannehill are fairly equal and are both a notch below Mahomes and Rodgers. 

 

I'd give Wilson the edge but otherwise agree on Wilson. I actually made the same point about Wilson earlier in the thread. I do think Wilson makes more wow plays and I think that affects perception of his ability.

 

I also don't think their WR corps is stacked. Before Metcalf they seemed pretty pedestrian at WR. Lockett is solid but not special, same with Golden Tate.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.


×
×
  • Create New...