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Is Ryan Tannehill an elite passer?


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49 minutes ago, Starkiller said:

Ignoring Tannehill, what other QBs around the league qualify as elite passers?

and to enhance that question ... what are the qualifiers ?
yards thrown ?
TD's passed ?
QBR ?
completion %
comeback / game winning drives ?
wins ?
Pro Bowl votes ?
MVP throphies ?
Super Bowl rings ?

pick the elite QB from this list : Dan Marino or Terry Bradshaw

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Who cares what he did with the Dolphins?  It's irrelevant.  He's been putting up elite level performances for two seasons now.

Any list that has Kyler Murray as a better pure passer than Tannehill is a joke and shouldn't be even debated.  It tells me that this person either has no idea what they are watching  or just doesn't

Back to the original question, because it was a good one. Here is an article from 2019 that examined QB efficiency in different situations:   https://touchdownwire.usatoday.com/2020/05/14/th

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48 minutes ago, Puck said:

what would someone use an example for this ?
here's a sample

Sunday Dec 22, 2019
Saints 38
Titans 28
Tannehill stats - QBR: 133.6 / 3TD's
Derrick Henry : Inactive
Dion Lewis : 15/68

Tannehill worse game was against the Bengals but I personally think the reason for that was the OL got completely worked that game.  TN OL was trash.  Tanny had no time.  

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55 minutes ago, Puck said:

what would someone use an example for this ?
here's a sample

Sunday Dec 22, 2019
Saints 38
Titans 28
Tannehill stats - QBR: 133.6 / 3TD's
Derrick Henry : Inactive
Dion Lewis : 15/68

 

That's 4.5 yards per carry which is good. I'd like to see where the average yards per carry is under 4, under 3.5 etc.

 

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58 minutes ago, Puck said:

what would someone use an example for this ?
here's a sample

Sunday Dec 22, 2019
Saints 38
Titans 28
Tannehill stats - QBR: 133.6 / 3TD's
Derrick Henry : Inactive
Dion Lewis : 15/68

 

Here, last year's playoff loss. 51 total rushing yards and a terrible ypc.

 

Screenshot_20210621-153225.thumb.png.43b17eb123093f23a034526921ebc64c.png

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6 minutes ago, Bongo59 said:

Tannehill worse game was against the Bengals but I personally think the reason for that was the OL got completely worked that game.  TN OL was trash.  Tanny had no time.  

that's not the issue. the relevance of my post was counter to the claim that Tannehill is worse when the running game is ineffective.
 

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11 minutes ago, XAEA12 said:

 

Here, last year's playoff loss. 51 total rushing yards and a terrible ypc.

 

Screenshot_20210621-153225.thumb.png.43b17eb123093f23a034526921ebc64c.png

While I realize that you posted that as a negative, the dude completed 70%

 

Not his fault if we didn't run enough plays to give him the opportunity

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19 minutes ago, XAEA12 said:

I'd like to see where the average yards per carry is under 4, under 3.5 etc.

 

wait a minute, you didn't even research your own argument ?
you claim he's worse when the run game struggles. but don't know when that's the case. ?
your example is the playoff loss. where as a passer, he was better than Lamar Jackson actually. 
1 game in 30ish starts. a game that sucked all around.
but a game they were still in at the 2 minute warning in the 4th qtr. they still had the ball because of a 1st down conversion on a 4th down QB run.
was about to get another 1st down until the WR lost his shit. did he have a bad game? maybe, so did the whole team and the coaches, but he still had them in a position to tie and potentially win it

the Saints example is pointing out Tannehill's game when he didn't have Henry. and he did just fine.

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20 minutes ago, SleepingTitan said:

While I realize that you posted that as a negative, the dude completed 70%

 

Not his fault if we didn't run enough plays to give him the opportunity


The INT from a receiver failing to screen out the defender on a contested catch is the negative.  🤷‍♂️

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26 minutes ago, SleepingTitan said:

While I realize that you posted that as a negative, the dude completed 70%

 

Not his fault if we didn't run enough plays to give him the opportunity

 Completion percentage isn't nearly as important as YPA, and his was 6.3 which is terrible.

 

Again, I'm not attacking the guy. Personally I think the issue is more related to offensive design than his ability, but I do believe it's a trend.

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27 minutes ago, Puck said:

wait a minute, you didn't even research your own argument ?
you claim he's worse when the run game struggles. but don't know when that's the case. ?
your example is the playoff loss. where as a passer, he was better than Lamar Jackson actually. 
1 game in 30ish starts. a game that sucked all around.
but a game they were still in at the 2 minute warning in the 4th qtr. they still had the ball because of a 1st down conversion on a 4th down QB run.
was about to get another 1st down until the WR lost his shit. did he have a bad game? maybe, so did the whole team and the coaches, but he still had them in a position to tie and potentially win it

the Saints example is pointing out Tannehill's game when he didn't have Henry. and he did just fine.

But the run game was successful in the Saints game.

 

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I wish people would go back and watch the footage from the Ravens playoff loss. 
pull up the game threads. revisit that trainwreck. 

or read the drive charts. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/202101100oti.htm#all_vis_drives
not bad actually. several 1st down converted.
noticed a couple of failed 3rd downs were to Corey and Jonnu , could be routes, effort with some fault
overall though, 17 had a serviceable game against a good defense.
the run game was ball sweat and there was some ass chewing from both sides of the sidelines about it.
lets not even consider the defense had anything to do with the loss.

had Raymond caught the ball instead of a faceplant, and they eventually score and converted the 2 point  and won, I wonder how many people would be down on him about it. 

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Also the chiefs afc championship loss, Titans averaged 3.7 ypc. Tannehill didn't have a terrible game but not a great one, and we needed a great one. 6.7 YPA vs Mahomes 8.4. It seems like for me to find examples all I have to do is look.

 

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2 hours ago, FinFaninNOVA said:

 

The big mistake (IMO) made by people who criticize Tannehill for things like run/pass ratio, amount of play action passing, number of plays that Henry faces 8 man boxes, etc. is that the weak spots in the offense is the pass blocking of the OL, and the depth at WR, not anything to do with the QB. 

 

The Titans were built to run a higher than normal 2 TE sets. Since they had quality pass catching TEs, who can also block, this gives them the flexibility to run or pass with the same personnel. The 8 man boxes are dictated by personnel, not a desire by the defense to dare Tannehill to throw. Play action passes are as much about slowing down the pass rush for the OL as they are about making things favorable for the QB. 

 

Back to your question - Is Tannehill elite? I'm about a big a Tannehill fan as you will find. I rank him just out of the elite category simply because he hasn't had to put up the efficiency numbers in a high volume passing offense. I also don't consider Russell Wilson or Josh Allen or Deshaun Watson elite either. 

 

Where I differ from some is that I don't think it is impossible for him to be elite and I don't think the gap between the elite and the next tier is huge. 

Totally agree with all this, especially if you're using a stringent definition of elite. Really it's Mahomes and everybody else imo.  Then maybe Rodgers, and then like you said the next tier below which would really be splitting hairs. I think Tannehill right now is right there with anybody other than Mahomes.

 

Let's be real, Tannehill gets flack because of his past with the dolphins, and I think it will take close to the same years of this kind of play as his time in Miami to shake the stigma. I think he'll have to be this good for another 3-4 years to get his time in MIA fully in the rearview mirror.

 

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