Jump to content

Is Ryan Tannehill an elite passer?


Recommended Posts

Okay, so the argument is, is Ryan Tannehill an elite passer? Those who say yes point to his numbers.  Numbers merely reflect performance, and in terms of performance Tannehill has been more accurate for more yards per play than 90 percent of the rest of the league. So why the skepticism?

 

Naysayers argue 2 points. First, the offense is not built around Tannehill. He's not asked to carry the team and pass first. He's successful because the run game is incredibly dominant. Second, when the offense has relied on Tannehill to pass once the run is negated, he hasn't delivered.

 

Truth is, both sides have valid points - but which is right in their conclusion? Tannehill is clearly a superior quarterback. I think his accuracy, among other traits, is criminally underrated. In terms of play style he actually reminds me most of Aaron Rodgers.

 

Speaking of Rodgers, his career was revived under the same offense that Tannehill has thrived in. Does that mean Rodgers is not actually elite, and just a function of a superior system?

 

That said, Tannehill came up short on more than one occasion when he was needed to take his game to the next level when the run was negated.  We have yet to see him thrive when the run game has sputtered.

 

My issue before, and I'll state it again, is that his fault or the fault of the design of the offense and the way the team is built?

 

Namely, Tannehill is not asked to drop back and pass as the focus of the offense, but is that because he isn't good enough to do it? 

 

Tannehill is often put a notch below quarterbacks like Brady, Brees, Watson, Mahomes, Wilson, Rodgers, Allen, and some would argue Roethlesberger, because these QBs are actually tasked with throwing the ball 3, 4, or heaven forbid 5 times in a row! And they do often deliver.

 

This is where I'd like to enter exhibit A as to why this is an unfair comparison.

 

 

 

This film study confirmed my suspicion I expressed last year as everyone was arguing Tannehill's ability. It's almost impossible to judge him by the same standard with an offense not built to pass protect first. I remember watching games of Brees drive down the field and be in awe of how clean his pocket was 95 percent of the time.

 

While Tannehill faltered at times it counted, my question is would any of these other quarterbacks have fared any better under the pressure he was under? Outside of Mahomes I'm inclined to say no. All great QBs look pedestrian under an OL giving up lots of pressure just like a RB looks terrible with no holes to run through.

 

The truth is until the offense is retooled to be pass first we may never get the answer definitively. But a player can only do what he's asked to do, and Tannehill has done that about as well as anyone in his position could do.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 474
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Who cares what he did with the Dolphins?  It's irrelevant.  He's been putting up elite level performances for two seasons now.

Any list that has Kyler Murray as a better pure passer than Tannehill is a joke and shouldn't be even debated.  It tells me that this person either has no idea what they are watching  or just doesn't

Back to the original question, because it was a good one. Here is an article from 2019 that examined QB efficiency in different situations:   https://touchdownwire.usatoday.com/2020/05/14/th

Posted Images

I think this offense puts Tannehill in some difficult situations.  We don't have a very successful screen game, don't build in a lot of short chuck type plays, and put him a decent amount of 3rd and long situations.  A lot of how this offense success is built on the run game/pa action and long developing passing plays.  I think Tannehill has exceeded expectations given the circumstances.

Link to post
Share on other sites

He's elite. No doubt about it. Is he as good as Mahomes? Probably not as talented but he has performed every bit as well over the last couple of seasons, if not better. This is the best offensive talent he's ever had, so I find it hard to see his numbers go down. Sure, he benefits from having Henry but who cares? That doesn't mean he isn't elite.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, TitanPoke said:

He's elite. No doubt about it. Is he as good as Mahomes? Probably not as talented but he has performed every bit as well over the last couple of seasons, if not better. This is the best offensive talent he's ever had, so I find it hard to see his numbers go down. Sure, he benefits from having Henry but who cares? That doesn't mean he isn't elite.

 

I agree that benefitting from Henry doesn't mean he can't be elite. Also the video shows that while he benefits from a superior run game, he's also hampered by pass protecting not being a strength of this offense.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Puck said:

no offense x2, but isn't this being discussed in like 3 other threads already

But seriously, that's why I made the thread, there's sort of piecemeal conversations in multiple threads and it's not what the thread is about. Also I had a detailed argument to make. Making a long detailed post in a thread where it's not the main point of the thread would be straight Teair Tarted.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

It's ridiculous to fault Ryan Tannehill for playing in a play action offense.

 

Was John Elway an elite passer?  How about Troy Aikman?

Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't agree that Tannehill isn't capable of putting the team on his back either. I think that's a function of the coaching staff. He's not changing a play that Vrabel tells him to run. I know he told Arthur to change plays such as the bomb to Khalif Raymond in 2019 playoffs. Henry carried the team in that run -- but don't forget the impressive plays Tannehill put together to keep drives established. Some of the QB's you mentioned as S tier get a lot more swings at success. Look at Tannehill yardage, yardage per play, TD/INT ratio.

 

He's incredibly efficient. I don't think that efficiency would regress if his frequency increased, and only then (when the coaches trust him to deliver) will we really know. I think we're about the find out how good he is this year. Henry is prime for injury. So is AJB and Julio. I'm a firm believer that Tannehill behind a good to great Oline will deliver the goods every single time. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, SleepingTitan said:

I don't agree that Tannehill isn't capable of putting the team on his back either. I think that's a function of the coaching staff. He's not changing a play that Vrabel tells him to run. I know he told Arthur to change plays such as the bomb to Khalif Raymond in 2019 playoffs. Henry carried the team in that run -- but don't forget the impressive plays Tannehill put together to keep drives established. Some of the QB's you mentioned as S tier get a lot more swings at success. Look at Tannehill yardage, yardage per play, TD/INT ratio.

 

He's incredibly efficient. I don't think that efficiency would regress if his frequency increased, and only then (when the coaches trust him to deliver) will we really know. I think we're about the find out how good he is this year. Henry is prime for injury. So is AJB and Julio. I'm a firm believer that Tannehill behind a good to great Oline will deliver the goods every single time. 

 

I honestly think the issue is more the design of the offense. I think the guards will struggle to consistently pass protect. Davis is young and can improve though. I do hope he gets more chances to drop back and pass, simply bc it isn't wise to not give him the reps and experience then expect him to perform in high pressure situations when our backs are against the wall.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, XAEA12 said:

Okay, so the argument is, is Ryan Tannehill an elite passer? Those who say yes point to his numbers.  Numbers merely reflect performance, and in terms of performance Tannehill has been more accurate for more yards per play than 90 percent of the rest of the league. So why the skepticism?

 

Naysayers argue 2 points. First, the offense is not built around Tannehill. He's not asked to carry the team and pass first. He's successful because the run game is incredibly dominant. Second, when the offense has relied on Tannehill to pass once the run is negated, he hasn't delivered.

 

Truth is, both sides have valid points - but which is right in their conclusion? Tannehill is clearly a superior quarterback. I think his accuracy, among other traits, is criminally underrated. In terms of play style he actually reminds me most of Aaron Rodgers.

 

Speaking of Rodgers, his career was revived under the same offense that Tannehill has thrived in. Does that mean Rodgers is not actually elite, and just a function of a superior system?

 

That said, Tannehill came up short on more than one occasion when he was needed to take his game to the next level when the run was negated.  We have yet to see him thrive when the run game has sputtered.

 

My issue before, and I'll state it again, is that his fault or the fault of the design of the offense and the way the team is built?

 

Namely, Tannehill is not asked to drop back and pass as the focus of the offense, but is that because he isn't good enough to do it? 

 

Tannehill is often put a notch below quarterbacks like Brady, Brees, Watson, Mahomes, Wilson, Rodgers, Allen, and some would argue Roethlesberger, because these QBs are actually tasked with throwing the ball 3, 4, or heaven forbid 5 times in a row! And they do often deliver.

 

This is where I'd like to enter exhibit A as to why this is an unfair comparison.

 

 

 

This film study confirmed my suspicion I expressed last year as everyone was arguing Tannehill's ability. It's almost impossible to judge him by the same standard with an offense not built to pass protect first. I remember watching games of Brees drive down the field and be in awe of how clean his pocket was 95 percent of the time.

 

While Tannehill faltered at times it counted, my question is would any of these other quarterbacks have fared any better under the pressure he was under? Outside of Mahomes I'm inclined to say no. All great QBs look pedestrian under an OL giving up lots of pressure just like a RB looks terrible with no holes to run through.

 

The truth is until the offense is retooled to be pass first we may never get the answer definitively. But a player can only do what he's asked to do, and Tannehill has done that about as well as anyone in his position could do.

 

 

The big mistake (IMO) made by people who criticize Tannehill for things like run/pass ratio, amount of play action passing, number of plays that Henry faces 8 man boxes, etc. is that the weak spots in the offense is the pass blocking of the OL, and the depth at WR, not anything to do with the QB. 

 

The Titans were built to run a higher than normal 2 TE sets. Since they had quality pass catching TEs, who can also block, this gives them the flexibility to run or pass with the same personnel. The 8 man boxes are dictated by personnel, not a desire by the defense to dare Tannehill to throw. Play action passes are as much about slowing down the pass rush for the OL as they are about making things favorable for the QB. 

 

Back to your question - Is Tannehill elite? I'm about a big a Tannehill fan as you will find. I rank him just out of the elite category simply because he hasn't had to put up the efficiency numbers in a high volume passing offense. I also don't consider Russell Wilson or Josh Allen or Deshaun Watson elite either. 

 

Where I differ from some is that I don't think it is impossible for him to be elite and I don't think the gap between the elite and the next tier is huge. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, XAEA12 said:

  We have yet to see him thrive when the run game has sputtered.

what would someone use an example for this ?
here's a sample

Sunday Dec 22, 2019
Saints 38
Titans 28
Tannehill stats - QBR: 133.6 / 3TD's
Derrick Henry : Inactive
Dion Lewis : 15/68

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.


×
×
  • Create New...