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Biden: Nobody working 40 hours a week should be living below the poverty line.


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@titanthakur

 

According to your logic ... you and your 9 buddies at your low-end job make $10/ hour and your only boss makes $900 /hr... for an average salary of $100/hr.

 

 

To you that means everyone is happy and wealthy!!!

 

At this point I question if you even finished middle school

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Like with most other things, there’s no perfect right or wrong answer. It’s all just a matter of the trade offs. There isn’t going to be some perfect one size fits all, cookie cutter solution.  

The headline seems hard to disagree with.   My biggest concern would be defining the poverty line.  Even at $15/hour that's only $31k per year.  That's still poverty in a lot of different pa

I'm all for raising the min wage but $15 seems high to me. Also, what about the small business owners who are on record saying they can't afford to pay employees a min $15? I've heard this from both s

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13 hours ago, Justafan said:

we should institute policies that make that person more valuable to the employer

Again....

 

My question was/is, clearly and simply, asking you to clarify what those policies would be.

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13 hours ago, Justafan said:

You don't think that there are monetary policies that could raise the value of labor?  Tax subsidies and tariffs?  Worker protection programs?  

 

The American government is the biggest buyer in the world.  It's incredibly naïve to not realize they can shape the job market with rules, regulations, and pure spending power.  

 

Employees are absolutely an investment.  I've seen some pretty ridiculous arguments on here and this isn't the worst, but it is up there.  

1. Other than inflation/devaluation of our currency, No.
2. It's even more incredibly naive, once the source of a problem has been identified, to promote the cause as the solution.
3. Not in the true sense of the word, they are not.

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8 hours ago, wiscotitansfan said:

Completely untrue... Unless you are talking about minimum wage jobs specifically

 

If you are at a job that any schlub can do just by waking up (hopefully on time), then of course you don't bring any real value to your company. Companies "invest" in their employees all the time though to increase the value that those people bring to their company. Not sure how you think that employees are not an investment when companies literally go out of their way to pay for specialized education and further training.

So you admit that the minimum wage exceeds the value provided by some labor.

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On 1/19/2021 at 7:06 PM, unauthorizedcinnamon said:

1. Other than inflation/devaluation of our currency, No.
2. It's even more incredibly naive, once the source of a problem has been identified, to promote the cause as the solution.
3. Not in the true sense of the word, they are not.

Lol.  What?  

 

So by passing laws that make it more difficult for unions to form, organize, and negotiate, the government hasn't influenced the value of labor?

 

That's one example of 100,000.  Either you don't understand what I'm talking about and are trying to argue some basic free market thing you read on the internet or you're just clueless about this all works.  I don't know, and I don't really care because I simply don't have time to break it all down for you.

 

The government has more ability to influence the market than any single other entity.  It does so by it's actions and by it's inactions.  By your logic everything is a problem and therefore there is no solution except just let the market run wild.  It's a poor argument though based on a simplistic understanding of a free market economy.

 

In every sense of the word employees are an investment.  It is the number one cost of overhead for most businesses and if you sink that kind of cost into something without an adequate return on investment, you go bankrupt.  Again, I get what you are saying, you're just wrong.  

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2 hours ago, Justafan said:

Lol.  What?  

 

So by passing laws that make it more difficult for unions to form, organize, and negotiate, the government has influenced the value of labor?

 

That's one example of 100,000.  Either you don't understand what I'm talking about and are trying to argue some basic free market thing you read on the internet or you're just clueless about this all works.  I don't know, and I don't really care because I simply don't have time to break it all down for you.

 

The government has more ability to influence the market than any single other entity.  It does so by it's actions and by it's inactions.  By your logic everything is problem and therefore there is no solution except just let the market run wild.  It's poor argument though based on a simplistic understanding of a free market economy.

 

In every sense of the word employees are an investment.  It is the number one cost of overhead for most businesses and if you sink that kind of cost into something without an adequate return on investment, you go bankrupt.  Again, I get what you're saying, you're just wrong.  

What, indeed.

Government influences the cost of labor, not so much the value of it.

My only question is, do YOU understand what you're talking about?

I agree, "the government has more ability to influence the market than any single other entity." Problems most often are only solved by identifying their source and eliminating it.

Employees are but a continuing cost for an employer, wages, training, health care benefits, pensions, etc

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I don't really understand this argument.

The minimum wage should be higher.  Gig employees should be considered employees.  That will trim the profits of companies like Walmart and Uber.

No.  Big.  Deal.

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On 1/18/2021 at 9:13 AM, titanthakur said:


I’d rather have millions of low paying jobs available and unemployment at around 4% (as it was pre covid) than to have thousands of $15 per hour jobs with unemployment around 20%. 

 

12.7% of people working 40 hours a week cant make ends meet. Whats the point of that symbolic number if it doesnt lead to improvement for the people it represents?

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22 minutes ago, unauthorizedcinnamon said:

 

12.7% of people working 40 hours a week cant make ends meet. Whats the point of that symbolic number if it doesnt lead to improvement for the people it represents?


I see your point but the balance can’t allow us to have 99% employment and $15 minimum wage. 
 

increasing minimum wage decreases number of jobs.

 

A capitalistic society is survival of the fittest. 

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14 hours ago, unauthorizedcinnamon said:

So you admit that the minimum wage exceeds the value provided by some labor.

Never even remotely implied that. Boss makes a dollar while they make a dime doesn't mean that they bring in less than a dime of revenue. C'mon now.

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On 1/19/2021 at 8:15 AM, oldschool said:

I'm all for raising the min wage but $15 seems high to me. Also, what about the small business owners who are on record saying they can't afford to pay employees a min $15? I've heard this from both sides of the aisle so its not just a Republican talking point. are they wrong?

 

I don't think it should immediately jump to $15.  That would be a huge shock to the little guy.  Maybe jump to $10 for a year, bounce up to $12 for 6 months and then go to $15.   That would gradually add money to the system from the bottom up. Anyone making $7.25 right now will spend every penny of the raise, businesses will have more overhead and be able to better support the end game.

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25 minutes ago, MadMax said:

 

I don't think it should immediately jump to $15.  That would be a huge shock to the little guy.  Maybe jump to $10 for a year, bounce up to $12 for 6 months and then go to $15.   That would gradually add money to the system from the bottom up. Anyone making $7.25 right now will spend every penny of the raise, businesses will have more overhead and be able to better support the end game.

Isn't that how they did it in NYC when they raised it to $15?  Incremental changes would be the better way to go.   Of course in NYC the minimum should probably be $25+ based on cost of living. 

 

But what about Gettysburg, Nebraska?  Should it be $15 there too? 

 

 

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Minimum wage is pretty stupid as an idea of a flat number.

 

It should be a math equation that changes... maybe yearly or even 6 month. 

 

Figure out a fluid living wage equation for each county of each state.. We have so much data now and arent using it.

Whats average for low-end rental?

Groceries?

insurance

Internet

Bills

+10% for saving/charity/to feel human.

 

You can do that for each county and it can be updated as prices and inflation rise and fall.

 

 

This method allows small business owners to adapt their own prices and business expenses while not just jacking it up across the board.

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2 hours ago, titanthakur said:


I see your point but the balance can’t allow us to have 99% employment and $15 minimum wage. 
 

increasing minimum wage decreases number of jobs.

 

A capitalistic society is survival of the fittest. 

Does that not include business owners as well?

What I mean by that is this.....is it not time for us to maybe redefine what a successful business is to include being able to pay those who work for you a wage that allows them to functionally take part in our economy?

Currently, we have people arguing that its better to have people working 3 jobs to survive than it is to ask 1 of those employers to pay them enough to do so

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3 hours ago, titanthakur said:


I see your point but the balance can’t allow us to have 99% employment and $15 minimum wage. 
 

increasing minimum wage decreases number of jobs.

It isn’t nearly that simplistic. You lose a small percentage of jobs in exchange for a large-to-significant increase in the income of a majority of American workers.

 

3 hours ago, titanthakur said:

A capitalistic society is survival of the fittest. 

Which is why pure capitalism doesn’t work (nor does pure socialism).

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