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Trump Wants to Pardon Himself


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If he tries to pardon himself, then he'll have to list the specific crimes he is pardoning himself for right? I dunno, just getting the fuckwit to do that sounds sort of satisfying. It's unlikely it will end up protecting him completely anyway.

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12 minutes ago, OzTitan said:

If he tries to pardon himself, then he'll have to list the specific crimes he is pardoning himself for right? I dunno, just getting the fuckwit to do that sounds sort of satisfying. It's unlikely it will end up protecting him completely anyway.

I was reading an article from the NYT where lawyers discussing the matter say that’s what he would have to do even possibly have a shot of immunity. If he does a blanket pardon it would essentially be worthless. 

Edited by IsntLifeFunny
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3 minutes ago, IsntLifeFunny said:

I was reading an article from the NYT where lawyers discussing the matter say that’s what he would have to do even possibly have a shot of immunity. If he does a blanket pardon it would essentially be worthless. 

I don’t see why a blanket pardon wouldn’t “work”

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24 minutes ago, Starkiller said:

So, if the House impeaches Trump and McConnell refuses to bring it up for a vote before January 20th, what happens? Does the trial just go away? Can they try Trump after he leaves office? Is there any point?

 

I heard you can impeach and convict even if no longer in office. The point would be he cannot be president ever again. Also it's the right thing to do to a seditious president.

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3 minutes ago, Titans279 said:

I heard you can impeach and convict even if no longer in office. The point would be he cannot be president ever again. Also it's the right thing to do to a seditious president.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2021/01/04/impeach-trump-on-his-way-out-bar-him-from-future-office-column/4125422001/
 

The Constitution’s Article I, Section 3 provides for “disqualification to hold and enjoy any office of honor, trust or profit under the United States” as a penalty for an impeachable offense. And critically, while removal from office requires a two-thirds vote of the Senate, disqualification is different.

 

Per the Cornell Law School Legal Information Institute: "Unlike removal, disqualification from office is a discretionary judgment, and there is no explicit constitutional linkage to the two-thirds vote on conviction. Although an argument can be made that disqualification should nonetheless require a two-thirds vote, the Senate has determined that disqualification may be accomplished by a simple majority vote.

 

Such a judgment has never been an issue in the nation’s three presidential impeachments since none of those impeached — Andrew Johnson, Bill Clinton and Donald Trump — were convicted by the Senate. 

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1 hour ago, freakingeek said:

The GOP is essentially dead as we once knew it. Trump has made it impossible for them to continue their charade in the name of democracy. That all ended yesterday. The ones left with any integrity whatsoever have to distance themselves from der Fuhrer and re-invent the party lines. For some it's too late. They have lost all credibility. If the ones remaining have any political ambition beyond being a junior trumper, they need to vote to remove this crazy bastard instead of pandering to his base. The kid gloves are off and we're playing for blood now. 

Strongly disagree.

 

Many thought they were witnessing the end of the Republican party as they knew it before Trump won the election. They thought the Tea Party and conservative extremists led to Trump's ridiculous bid, and that there was no way he'd really win. Obviously that was wrong, and we all saw that the party was willing to go to an extreme never before seen in modern US politics.

 

People will deny Trump in 4 years. The extremists will still vote against any Democrat (which equals socialist in their minds). Others will whitewash their complicity in Trump. Republicans will offer up another conservative candidate that is "Trump in policy, but not in character." They'll vote for whoever this person is because they still want low taxes, think deregulation will increase their stock portfolio, and they still fear the same stuff: immigrants, loss of white cultural dominance, gov help for anyone besides themselves, gays, and all other forms of general human progress.

 

They'll turn around and talk about how glad they are Trump is gone and how they never agreed with him. They'll speak proudly of how the party has changed for the better and how they're just and moral now. Nothing with them will change -- it's all rationalization.

 

These are people capable of ungodly mental gymnastics, and they boast memories worse than an 18-year-old lab suffering alzeihmer's.

Edited by cenj
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3 minutes ago, cenj said:

Strongly disagree.

 

Many thought they were witnessing the end of the Republican party as they knew it before Trump won the election. They thought the Tea Party and conservative extremists led to Trump's ridiculous bid, and that there was no way he'd really win. Obviously that was wrong, and we all saw that the party was willing to go to an extreme never before seen in modern US politics.

 

People will deny Trump in 4 years. The extremists will still vote against any Democrat (which equals socialist in their minds). Others will whitewash their complicity in Trump. Republicans will offer up another conservative candidate that is "Trump in policy, but not in character." They'll vote for whoever this person is because they still want low taxes, think deregulation will increase their stock portfolio, and they still fear the same stuff: immigrants, loss of white cultural dominance, gov help for anyone besides themselves, gays, and all other forms of general human progress.

 

They'll turn around and talk about how glad they are Trump is gone and how they never agreed with him. They'll speak proudly of how the party has changed for the better and how they're just and moral now. Nothing with them will change -- it's all rationalization.

 

These people are capable of ungodly mental gymnastics, and they have a worse memory than 18 year old lab with alzeihmer's.

Yup. This x 1,000.

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2 hours ago, Starkiller said:

I don’t see any way it’s going to fly in the courts. The Constitution isn’t framed where the president is a king or impervious legally.
 

But he sure ain’t going to resign now and hope for Pence to pardon him. That bridge is burned I’d say.

Apparently he is considering it, but many legal scholars think it will not pass legal muster and any such pardon could be overturned by the SCOTUS. To have this happen though, the Feds would have to make a case against him and then have his lawyers try to use his pardon. At that point it would go through the Federal legal system and end up at SCOTUS. I doubt anyone at the Federal level has the stomach to try since there will be multiple case brought against him in state courts once he is out of office.

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17 minutes ago, cenj said:

Strongly disagree.

 

Many thought they were witnessing the end of the Republican party as they knew it before Trump won the election. They thought the Tea Party and conservative extremists led to Trump's ridiculous bid, and that there was no way he'd really win. Obviously that was wrong, and we all saw that the party was willing to go to an extreme never before seen in modern US politics.

 

People will deny Trump in 4 years. The extremists will still vote against any Democrat (which equals socialist in their minds). Others will whitewash their complicity in Trump. Republicans will offer up another conservative candidate that is "Trump in policy, but not in character." They'll vote for whoever this person is because they still want low taxes, think deregulation will increase their stock portfolio, and they still fear the same stuff: immigrants, loss of white cultural dominance, gov help for anyone besides themselves, gays, and all other forms of general human progress.

 

They'll turn around and talk about how glad they are Trump is gone and how they never agreed with him. They'll speak proudly of how the party has changed for the better and how they're just and moral now. Nothing with them will change -- it's all rationalization.

 

These are people capable of ungodly mental gymnastics, and they boast memories worse than an 18-year-old lab suffering alzeihmer's.

 

Trump isn't just being thrown out of the Republican party, he's being cast out of America.

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33 minutes ago, Starkiller said:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2021/01/04/impeach-trump-on-his-way-out-bar-him-from-future-office-column/4125422001/
 

The Constitution’s Article I, Section 3 provides for “disqualification to hold and enjoy any office of honor, trust or profit under the United States” as a penalty for an impeachable offense. And critically, while removal from office requires a two-thirds vote of the Senate, disqualification is different.

 

Per the Cornell Law School Legal Information Institute: "Unlike removal, disqualification from office is a discretionary judgment, and there is no explicit constitutional linkage to the two-thirds vote on conviction. Although an argument can be made that disqualification should nonetheless require a two-thirds vote, the Senate has determined that disqualification may be accomplished by a simple majority vote.

 

Such a judgment has never been an issue in the nation’s three presidential impeachments since none of those impeached — Andrew Johnson, Bill Clinton and Donald Trump — were convicted by the Senate. 

 

So, if you want to be sure then you had better convict. It would go thru the courts.

 

I think it makes sense that it would require conviction of the charges, not just essentially being charged with them, to bear the penalty.

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1 minute ago, Titans279 said:

 

So, if you want to be sure then you had better convict. It would go thru the courts.

 

I think it makes sense that it would require conviction of the charges, not just essentially being charged with them, to bear the penalty.

Well if the trial can exist even after the impeached is out of office and you only need a simple majority to convict then they absolutely need to do it.

Edited by Starkiller
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4 minutes ago, Starkiller said:

Well if the trial can exist even after the impeached is out of office and you only need a simple majority to convict then they absolutely need to do it.

 

I thought the constitution required a 2/3rds majority to convict

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Just now, Titans279 said:

I thought the constitution required a 2/3rds majority to convict

Read what I posted above (long quote from USA Today). Basically it’s 2/3rds to remove him from office but only a simple majority to disqualify him from holding office again.

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