OILERMAN Posted November 6, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2020 30 minutes ago, 9 Nines said: Also no messaging in the world will help with this: The problem with blaming racism is Trump picked up massively with minorities and lost whites Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rekirts Posted November 6, 2020 Report Share Posted November 6, 2020 (edited) Dems will win presidential vote by 5-6 points most likely, against an incumbent with strong economy in first three years. Problem is the EC and Senate system is broken. Dems will now have won more votes for President in all but one election since HW but we still have minority rule. this is not limited just to the president either, they have received more votes in senate races and house too. But when South Dakota gets the same senate seats as New York how much more can you do? Edited November 6, 2020 by rekirts Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitansFan777 Posted November 6, 2020 Report Share Posted November 6, 2020 3 minutes ago, rekirts said: Dems will win presidential vote by 5-6 points most likely, against an incumbent with strong economy in first three years. Problem is the EC and Senate system is broken. Dems will now have won more votes for President in all but one election since HW but we still have minority rule. this is not limited just to the president either, they have received more votes in senate races and house too. But when South Dakota gets the same senate seats as New York how much more can you do? Do what you can to shift power to the house. How you do that or how plausible? I have no clue. Pretty damn low plausibility though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scine09 Posted November 6, 2020 Report Share Posted November 6, 2020 That's the biggest problem that the poster above alluded to when states like California have the same weight in the senate as states like Wyoming despite being outnumbered by around 38 or 39 million people. What are you going to do? No matter what happens when you take South Carolina, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, Tennessee, Kentucky, West Virginia, Indiana, Iowa, Missouri, Arkansas, Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, Nebraska, South Dakota, North Dakota, Montana, Wyoming, Utah, Idaho and Alaska, more times than not 2/2 senators will be Republican. That's 44% of the country. Despite almost many of those states being among the lowest in population in the country. So yeah, the system is broken. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
9 Nines Posted November 6, 2020 Report Share Posted November 6, 2020 (edited) A couple of thoughts: 1) Messaging: Much easier job for Republicans. Republicans have no conflicting goals. Libertarian at its base - does not want government to do much of anything. Therefore no conflicts on deciding what the government should be doing - they do not want it to do much of anything. Democrats are a collection of people who see government as being a system that helps people and have disagreements in what they want government to do. That makes messaging harder for Democrats because they have to weigh how a message will hurt in parts of their coalition. 2) Virus and Postmaster. Known: record mail voting; Postmaster enacted ways to hinder mail. So there are likely many votes that were not counted. It could have easily been enough to change the results of this election 3) Social media and dumb people. It is hard to combat people believing absolutely stupid, nutty things. For example, Biden did not do as well with white women as polls indicated. The likely reason is all these stupid white women caught into the Qanon stupid stuff - that trend has been growing the last few months. Instead of the obvious, e.g. plastic surgery and photoshopping, they think celebrities stay young looking by eating children. How do you counter that? Instead there needs to be safeguard and regulations put into place to hinder that messaging - require social media sites to run education campaigns against that stuff and block content when education does not work. Edited November 6, 2020 by 9 Nines Starkiller, Justafan, and PetroleroTitanico 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
headhunter Posted November 6, 2020 Report Share Posted November 6, 2020 We can't have california controlling everything El Guapo 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post oldschool Posted November 6, 2020 Popular Post Report Share Posted November 6, 2020 1 hour ago, headhunter said: From a guy that leans right I'll give you ideas to win people like me over. The conversation needs to happen. Thats my take away from the last 2 elections. Rural white America has something to say and dems need to admit not all of them are Trump crazies. IsntLifeFunny, El Guapo, PetroleroTitanico, and 2 others 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scine09 Posted November 6, 2020 Report Share Posted November 6, 2020 Just now, headhunter said: We can't have california controlling everything I think it should be based on population. I also think it should be a popular vote, none of this electoral college nonsense. What other place in life does the person who received less votes (like Bush in 2000 or Trump in 2016) get to win? Generally it's the person who more people want to win get to win. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgo Posted November 6, 2020 Report Share Posted November 6, 2020 The single worst messaging issue beyond "socialism" was Defund the Police. That was some epicly stupid shit and I've been saying it for months. IsntLifeFunny, oldschool, and Justafan 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justafan Posted November 6, 2020 Report Share Posted November 6, 2020 5 minutes ago, 9 Nines said: A couple of thoughts: 1) Messaging: Much easier job for Republicans. Republicans have no conflicting goals. Libertarian at its base - does not want government to do much of anything. Therefore no conflicts on deciding what the government should be doing - they do not want it to do much of anything. Democrats are a collection of people who see government as being a system that helps people and have disagreements in what they want government to do. That makes messaging harder for Democrats because they have to weigh how a message will hurt in parts of their coalition. 2) Virus and Postmaster. Known: record mail voting; Postmaster enacted ways to hinder mail. So there are likely many votes that were not counted. It could have easily been enough to change the results of this election 3) Social media and dumb people. It is hard to combat people believing absolutely stupid, nutty things. For example, Biden did not do as well with white women as polls indicated. The likely reason is all these stupid white women caught into the Qanon stupid stuff - that trend has been growing the last few months. Instead of the obvious, e.g. plastic surgery and photoshopping, they think celebrities stay young looking by eating children. How do you counter that? Instead there needs to be safeguard and regulations put into place to hinder that messaging - require social media sites to run education campaigns against that stuff and block content when education does not work. I agree but I don't think you battle this with censorship. The more you try and block the content, the more they will dig their heels in and scream that they are being silenced because they were right all along. Instead, let them yell at the top of their lungs and then go about your business and beat them where it matters. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justafan Posted November 6, 2020 Report Share Posted November 6, 2020 Just now, tgo said: The single worst messaging issue beyond "socialism" was Defund the Police. That was some epicly stupid shit and I've been saying it for months. Buttigieg and Yang had some really good messaging. The rest of the Party should have taken more cues from them. oldschool 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgo Posted November 6, 2020 Report Share Posted November 6, 2020 42 minutes ago, OILERMAN said: The problem with blaming racism is Trump picked up massively with minorities and lost whites Lost whites? You just mean overall? Because Biden gained a ton among educated white voters, independent white voters, and white women (although not as much as we were told). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
9 Nines Posted November 6, 2020 Report Share Posted November 6, 2020 2 minutes ago, tgo said: Defund the Police. Instead of the pro-change-police-group coming up with that slogan, one would think that is the sound-bite that Republicans would have created to label that group as defunding police. The pro group developing and using that slogan is beyond being inept. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgo Posted November 6, 2020 Report Share Posted November 6, 2020 1 minute ago, Justafan said: Buttigieg and Yang had some really good messaging. The rest of the Party should have taken more cues from them. It boils down to the culture war bullshit in the end. Democrats need to stop coming across like they're telling rural people how to think and live, and just focus on how they're going to help them economically. Although Dems should always stand up to blatant racism and bigotry of course, just not go all in on the woke liberal shit. Justafan, and oldschool 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgo Posted November 6, 2020 Report Share Posted November 6, 2020 Just now, 9 Nines said: Instead of the pro-change-police-group coming up with that slogan, one would think that is the sound-bite that Republicans would have created to label that group as defunding police. The pro group developing and using that slogan is beyond being inept. Imagine if the slogan had been "Help the Police" and the idea behind it being to give them more resources and training and social workers in departments to assist them on certain calls, in order to stop brutality and bias. How much more productive would that have been? Mythos27, and 9 Nines 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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