Who do you think played the biggest role in defeating Nazi Germany?

[IrishTitansFan]

 

[oldschool]

You should add options for Hitler and Japan because if Hitler wasn't stupid enough to open a 2nd front in the East and Japan didn't attack Pearl Harbor, Europe would be far different today. I doubt Great Britain would have been able to turn the tide of the war even with the U.S sending materials for the war effort.

[Starkiller]

The French and Brits contributed very little. France got steamrolled quickly. The British forces slowly kept losing battles across the globe. Churchill gets lauded but he was getting his ass handed to him and was begging FDR to save him. 
 

If Japan had not attacked Pearl Harbor and then Germany also declared war on the US in support of Japan, things would have turned out very differently in Europe. American forces overwhelmed Germany, who had been worn down from years of fighting. 
 

You could say the same for the Soviets, though. They were lucky to stop Germany’s advance, but eventually their numbers overwhelmed Germany. 
 

I’d say the US played the biggest role, but the Soviets could make a claim as well. 

Edited May 9, 2020 by Starkiller

[IrishTitansFan]

3 hours ago, oldschool said:

You should add options for Hitler and Japan because if Hitler wasn't stupid enough to open a 2nd front in the East and Japan didn't attack Pearl Harbor, Europe would be far different today. I doubt Great Britain would have been able to turn the tide of the war even with the U.S sending materials for the war effort.

Agreed but that's a bit of a different discussion.

[IrishTitansFan]

1 hour ago, Starkiller said:

The French and Brits contributed very little. France got steamrolled quickly. The British forces slowly kept losing battles across the globe. Churchill gets lauded but he was getting his ass handed to him and was begging FDR to save him. 
 

If Japan had not attacked Pearl Harbor and then Germany also declared war on the US in support of Japan, things would have turned out very differently in Europe. American forces overwhelmed Germany, who had been worn down from years of fighting. 
 

You could say the same for the Soviets, though. They were lucky to stop Germany’s advance, but eventually their numbers overwhelmed Germany. 
 

I’d say the US played the biggest role, but the Soviets could make a claim as well. 

The U.S of course played a big role, but the Soviets were easily the biggest factor overall in winning the war. It's not close. The U.S fought 10 Nazi divisions, the Soviets fought 200. Something like 80% of Nazi deaths were at the hands of the Soviets. I get what you mean about the perfect timing of the U.S intervention, that much is obvious, and it is way more nuanced than I am giving it credit for, but the wider point I'm making is that the Soviet's role has been severely downplayed because of years of western propaganda. It's pretty crazy, especially this graphic.

 

[Titans279]

Most Americans are going to say America because it's the nationalist narrative we tell ourselves.

 

"Back to back WW Champs"

[Starkiller]

37 minutes ago, IrishTitansFan said:

The U.S of course played a big role, but the Soviets were easily the biggest factor overall in winning the war. It's not close. The U.S fought 10 Nazi divisions, the Soviets fought 200. Something like 80% of Nazi deaths were at the hands of the Soviets. I get what you mean about the perfect timing of the U.S intervention, that much is obvious, and it is way more nuanced than I am giving it credit for, but the wider point I'm making is that the Soviet's role has been severely downplayed because of years of western propaganda. It's pretty crazy, especially this graphic.

 

Oh, I have no doubt the Soviets faced way more of the German troops. But that’s because Germany tried to invade USSR. And Germany would have taken Moscow if not for an early winter, so there was a lot of luck in the outcome. But there is no doubt that the Allies could not have won the war without Stalin's troops.

 

But they also couldn’t have won without America. We were the driving force on on western front. There was no D Day or any other beachhead into heavily defended continental Europe without the American military. And you can’t rely just on ground forces to do the math. It was American (with the Brits) air power using strategic bombing that crushed German factories supplying the war effort.

Edited May 9, 2020 by Starkiller

[Starkiller]

10 minutes ago, Titans279 said:

Most Americans are going to say America because it's the nationalist narrative we tell ourselves.

Sure, but that doesn’t make it untrue. We certainly aren’t going to give the Soviet Union enough credit because of nationalism, but that doesn’t mean the US didn’t have arguably the biggest impact.

[oldschool]

57 minutes ago, IrishTitansFan said:

The U.S of course played a big role, but the Soviets were easily the biggest factor overall in winning the war. It's not close. The U.S fought 10 Nazi divisions, the Soviets fought 200. Something like 80% of Nazi deaths were at the hands of the Soviets. I get what you mean about the perfect timing of the U.S intervention, that much is obvious, and it is way more nuanced than I am giving it credit for, but the wider point I'm making is that the Soviet's role has been severely downplayed because of years of western propaganda. It's pretty crazy, especially this graphic.

 

 

Spot on. You can't under sell enough how WW2 history has been taught for the last 75 years in America. The truth is the Nazis were well on their  way to defeat before the U.S landed in France. Americans also don't realize the true scope of British impact in the war. Advancements in radar and code breaking were instrumental to halting Nazi advances well before the U.S joined the war. 

[oldschool]

30 minutes ago, Starkiller said:

Sure, but that doesn’t make it untrue. We certainly aren’t going to give the Soviet Union enough credit because of nationalism, but that doesn’t mean the US didn’t have arguably the biggest impact.

 

No you are wrong. You are proving his point. 

[Starkiller]

1 minute ago, oldschool said:

 

No you are wrong. You are proving his point. 

Hardly. I said both sides were vital. I just don’t agree on the math being all about ground troops.

[Starkiller]

Also, do you deduct points for the Soviets being in league with Hitler during the early stages of the war? Because that had a huge impact early on with Eastern Europe being invaded from both sides.

[TitanDuckFan]

It depends on which aspect of the war one examines.

The Soviets faced German aggression on their home turf.  A lot of it, and are credited with more battles and more kills.

But for those who realize America's ability to produce the goods that wars are fought with was a large part of why the war was won, know that the American and British forces, especially the air forces, are almost solely responsible for destroying Hitler's ability to wage war on any front.

The Soviets had little to do with damaging/destroying Germany's industrial capabilities.

No army fights without food, fuel, guns/ammo and/or the means to transport them with.

Ike and his team of war planners were spot on in how they targeted German industries.

[oldschool]

32 minutes ago, Starkiller said:

Also, do you deduct points for the Soviets being in league with Hitler during the early stages of the war? Because that had a huge impact early on with Eastern Europe being invaded from both sides.

 

No it didn't. It was a non aggression pact. Germany didn't need any help taking Poland. In fact the eastern front didn't exist until Hitler invaded the Ukraine and the Baltic.

Edited May 9, 2020 by oldschool

[Starkiller]

2 hours ago, oldschool said:

 

No it didn't. It was a non aggression pact. Germany didn't need any help taking Poland. In fact the eastern front didn't exist until Hitler invaded the Ukraine and the Baltic.

They didn’t need help, but that doesn’t change the fact that Hitler and Stalin agreed before the war to divide up Eastern Europe between themselves. They were both in on it together until Hitler inevitably broke the pact.