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10 hours ago, BudAdams said:

Because he’s only flashed that ability in the year the Falcons win the Super Bowl and for the second half of last year.  
 

All reports out of Atlanta also indicate that he displays questionable effort. I would assume that that would change if you’re in a contract prove it year but who knows

 

Did you read the discussion?  His win rate was very good Last Year.

15th in the league.  Remember, sacks don't matter.   He had a high win rate and 8 sacks.

That is better than a high win rate and only 3 sacks, I guess.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Soxcat said:

 

Did you read the discussion?  His win rate was very good Last Year.

15th in the league.  Remember, sacks don't matter.   He had a high win rate and 8 sacks.

That is better than a high win rate and only 3 sacks, I guess.

 

I explained why he got a below market prove it deal.  

 

As for your "win rate", PFF sure didn't jive with that.  He ranked 49th in their edge position pass rushing grade (you know who was 13th) and 59th in overall grade (you know who was 9th overall).  Add in the coachability / effort factor, it should be obvious why he signed for the type of deal he did. 

 

 

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His deal wasn't super cheap either.  The question is if someone like Clowney is really worth twice as much.  

If you didn't notice I said what I said tongue in cheek.  As in if these win rates are so indicative of what a great player someone is...….

As usual people use whatever makes their argument sound better while excusing other stats as irrelevant.  Like sacks.  

As in this guy was a beast, dominating people all year but.... well he for some reason could only get 3 sacks.

 

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12 minutes ago, Soxcat said:

His deal wasn't super cheap either.  The question is if someone like Clowney is really worth twice as much.  

If you didn't notice I said what I said tongue in cheek.  As in if these win rates are so indicative of what a great player someone is...….

As usual people use whatever makes their argument sound better while excusing other stats as irrelevant.  Like sacks.  

As in this guy was a beast, dominating people all year but.... well he for some reason could only get 3 sacks.

 

 

Covid needs to find you

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1 hour ago, BudAdams said:

 

I explained why he got a below market prove it deal.  

 

As for your "win rate", PFF sure didn't jive with that.  He ranked 49th in their edge position pass rushing grade (you know who was 13th) and 59th in overall grade (you know who was 9th overall).  Add in the coachability / effort factor, it should be obvious why he signed for the type of deal he did. 

 

 

PFF also ranked Tannehill as the worst QB in the history of their grading system a year ago. Monumentally worse than Mariota has ever been, even though the real world results didn't jive at all.  And this year proved that their system is really just a novelty in many ways.  It seems that the PRWR metric at least focuses on something tangible which can be measured, as opposed to arbitrary grades which seem to change all of the fucking time.

Edited by abc2330

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20 minutes ago, Soxcat said:

His deal wasn't super cheap either.  The question is if someone like Clowney is really worth twice as much.  

If you didn't notice I said what I said tongue in cheek.  As in if these win rates are so indicative of what a great player someone is...….

As usual people use whatever makes their argument sound better while excusing other stats as irrelevant.  Like sacks.  

As in this guy was a beast, dominating people all year but.... well he for some reason could only get 3 sacks.

 

 

Clowney does have value, especially as a movable piece or as a 4-3 end, but not anywhere near what he's asking for. He is a dominant run player and does wreak havoc, but the production isn't quite there for the price tag. 

 

The Titans obviously thought Beasley was a better fit for the money and with the defense they're wanting to run this coming year. 

Edited by tgo

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2 minutes ago, abc2330 said:

PFF also ranked Tannehill as the worst QB in the history of their grading system a year ago. Monumentally worse than Mariota has ever been, even though the real world results didn't jive at all.  And this year proved that their system is really just a novelty in many ways.  It seems that the PRWR metric at least focuses on something tangible which can be measured, as opposed to arbitrary grades which seem to change all of the fucking time.

 

Pass rush win rate is literally defined as did you beat your blocker within 2.5 seconds.  Not did you force pressure.  It could even be away from the passer. 

 

PFF isn't perfect by any means but categorically they tend to match the eye test with grades.

 

No question Tannehill played poorly in 2018 but that's also somewhat of an abberation for him.  PFF had Tannehill rated above Mariota FWIW in 2016 (dumb dumb's career year) and Mariota never had a grade as high as RT did in 2019.

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6 minutes ago, tgo said:

 

Clowney does have value, especially as a movable piece or as a 4-3 end, but not anywhere near what he's asking for. He is a dominant run player and does wreak havoc, but the production isn't quite there for the price tag. 

 

The Titans obviously thought Beasley was a better fit for the money and with the defense they're wanting to run this coming year. 

 

Of course, reportedly Seattle's offers were contingent on a team physician issued physical.  I'd have to assume the Titans or any other team would also want this and with the current situation, it's not happening even if you agree to financial terms. 

 

Beasley is the Wake replacement and perhaps some for Correa too.  Clowney's role would be completely different on the Titans.

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6 minutes ago, BudAdams said:

 

Of course, reportedly Seattle's offers were contingent on a team physician issued physical.  I'd have to assume the Titans or any other team would also want this and with the current situation, it's not happening even if you agree to financial terms. 

 

Beasley is the Wake replacement and perhaps some for Correa too.  Clowney's role would be completely different on the Titans.

 

Yeah, that's right - which is a point I've made repeatedly in various threads. 

 

I'm hoping the Seahawks end up getting tired of waiting on him and moving on, allowing the Titans to make a late bid later on in the offseason post draft. But I'm not even sure that the Titans want him even at a discount. 

 

I guess we'll find out eventually. 

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19 minutes ago, BudAdams said:

 

Pass rush win rate is literally defined as did you beat your blocker within 2.5 seconds.  Not did you force pressure.  It could even be away from the passer. 

 

PFF isn't perfect by any means but categorically they tend to match the eye test with grades.

 

No question Tannehill played poorly in 2018 but that's also somewhat of an abberation for him.  PFF had Tannehill rated above Mariota FWIW in 2016 (dumb dumb's career year) and Mariota never had a grade as high as RT did in 2019.

If he ranked highly in PRWR but low in pressures, that could also indicate that the coverage was an issue as someone else had claimed.   

 

Anyway, PFF's numbers are all over the place and it's pretty easy to find inconsistencies with their grading.  Here are  different excerpts about the same exact player:

 

"Atlanta Falcons four-year edge defender Vic Beasley Jr. had a stellar sophomore campaign after going in the first round of the 2015 NFL Draft, as he led the NFL in sacks and ranked fifth in pass-rush grade (85.3) among qualifiers in 2016."

 

"Even in his great 2016 season, his 13.9 pass-rush win percentage ranked 43rd among qualifying edge defenders"

 

“However, sacks are not the best way to project pass-rushing efficacy moving forward: Beasley’s relatively weak pressure rates (18th among 3-4 outside linebackers in PRP in ’16) in relation to other similarly statured edge defenders was a cause for concern, and his fall to five sacks in 2017 somewhat predictable.”

 

Those are literally from the same exact article.  If they can't keep their shit straight, we shouldn't put much stock into it.  

 

This whole situation is sounding like Tannehill in Miami, where he had a down year after a great start.  And everyone wanted to pile on him because of a shitty fanbase and local media.

 

https://www.pff.com/news/pro-falcons-vic-beasley-has-regressed-back-to-the-mean-needs-to-bounce-back-to-avoid-bust-label

Edited by abc2330

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Living in GA (just outside Chattanooga) there are a ton of Falcons fans I’ve gotten to know and am friends with. They all believe he was moved around too much after his breakout year. Quinn didn’t utilize him best. Most feel like we have gotten a steal. 

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39 minutes ago, AvgJoe said:

Living in GA (just outside Chattanooga) there are a ton of Falcons fans I’ve gotten to know and am friends with. They all believe he was moved around too much after his breakout year. Quinn didn’t utilize him best. Most feel like we have gotten a steal. 

He’s a one trick pony who has actually beefed up his run stopping prowess. I think he’s an excellent signing. 

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