Virus in US

[CaliTitan3518]

1 minute ago, IsntLifeFunny said:

This is overstated, but they’re certainly underpaid and are mostly lower-middle class. 

haha thanks for commenting on that. In no way does a teachers salary rank as poor. I agree on the underpaid part, but if someone is getting into teaching for the money they already made a mistake. 

[CaliTitan3518]

23 minutes ago, patsplat said:

 

Why do you think that teachers don't save lives?

 

I'm having trouble recalling the whole thread with Jamal and Allen slam on the defense, help me recall.

 

Is the counter argument that your sister is grinding through as a teacher, and therefore teachers are non-essential?

Literally save lives? no. Save lives in the aspect of allowing parents to work and take the burden of households that have been massively impacted by distance learning? ya. Unless you are also looking at it from the teachers impacting kids lives too which I am not really considering because you can impact a kids life outside of the classroom. 

 

I agree teachers are essential for the reasons you pointed out earlier but they aren't essential to the point where there isn't an alternative to not being in school. The success of distance learning is going to vary school district to school district  and household to household but it is an option. Of course it puts the burden on many parents and teachers. 

 

If teachers get the vaccine who is that protecting/saving if she has a classroom full of 30-65 households that are deemed non essential? 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 12, 2020 by CaliTitan3518

[pat]

7 minutes ago, CaliTitan3518 said:

Literally save lives? no. Save lives in the aspect of allowing parents to work and take the burden of households that have been massively impacted by distance learning? ya. Unless you are also looking at it from the teachers impacting kids lives too which I am not really considering because you can impact a kids life outside of the classroom. 

 

I agree teachers are essential for the reasons you pointed out earlier but they aren't essential to the point where there isn't an alternative to not being in school. The success of distance learning is going to vary school district to school district  and household to household but it is an option. Of course it puts the burden on many parents and teachers. 

 

If teachers get the vaccine who is that protecting/saving if she has a classroom full of 30-65 households that are deemed non essential? 

 

If the teacher gets the vaccine, it's protecting her, the futures of those 30-65 kids, and the well-being of those 30-65 households whether or not they are essential.

 

First, if schools were required to open during a pandemic, then teachers were by definition essential.  It's not fair to tell a person that their job is essential and they have to risk their lives, but once the vaccine comes along tell them their job is not essential.

 

Second, I think you are burying the lede by not considering the impact on kids.  The essential function of teachers is to educate children.  The positive impact of teachers and in-person education on kids lives is huge, as is the negative impact of a chaotic COVID-19 gap year.  Education has been heavily defunded and runs on a tight budget.  Principals can't pivot in an agile manner and redefine pedagogy at the whims of Betsy Davos.  Schools and education are designed from the ground up to function in person.

Finally, when care-giving is disrupted in an ad-hoc manner the rest of society is disrupted.  It shuts the city down, with a real economic cost.  It's why schools in Georgia tried to open despite all evidence to the contrary.  In order to get back on track, we have to heed the science and be smart.  The cost / benefit, especially for primary schools, is in favor of treating schools as essential.

[CaliTitan3518]

1 hour ago, patsplat said:

 

If the teacher gets the vaccine, it's protecting her, the futures of those 30-65 kids, and the well-being of those 30-65 households whether or not they are essential.

 

First, if schools were required to open during a pandemic, then teachers were by definition essential.  It's not fair to tell a person that their job is essential and they have to risk their lives, but once the vaccine comes along tell them their job is not essential.

 

Second, I think you are burying the lede by not considering the impact on kids.  The essential function of teachers is to educate children.  The positive impact of teachers and in-person education on kids lives is huge, as is the negative impact of a chaotic COVID-19 gap year.  Education has been heavily defunded and runs on a tight budget.  Principals can't pivot in an agile manner and redefine pedagogy at the whims of Betsy Davos.  Schools and education are designed from the ground up to function in person.

Finally, when care-giving is disrupted in an ad-hoc manner the rest of society is disrupted.  It shuts the city down, with a real economic cost.  It's why schools in Georgia tried to open despite all evidence to the contrary.  In order to get back on track, we have to heed the science and be smart.  The cost / benefit, especially for primary schools, is in favor of treating schools as essential.

How is 1 person getting a vaccine protecting a class room full of kids of households who are not protected? The only thing it’s protecting is the teacher spreading it to kids and protects the kids from spreading it to the teachers. It doesn’t prevent the kids from spreading it amongst themselves and to unprotected households. 
 

I don’t think it’s about whether teachers are essential it’s about whether in person schooling is on the same essential level as first responders. If it is why aren’t student who are going to be in the schools just like the teachers considered essential as well? Are we expecting kids to wear masks appropriately all day and properly social distance? Anyone with kids knows that is not possible. 

Edited December 12, 2020 by CaliTitan3518

[OilerTitanHybrid]

 

Remember, the vaccine does not prevent you from getting coronavirus.  You can still get the coronavirus.  It just helps to reduce the relative risk of disease from it.  And on top of that, we still don't know if we can give it to other people, if we get vaccinated.

Edited December 12, 2020 by OilerTitanHybrid

[pat]

1 hour ago, CaliTitan3518 said:

How is 1 person getting a vaccine protecting a class room full of kids of households who are not protected? The only thing it’s protecting is the teacher spreading it to kids and protects the kids from spreading it to the teachers. It doesn’t prevent the kids from spreading it amongst themselves and to unprotected households. 
 

I don’t think it’s about whether teachers are essential it’s about whether in person schooling is on the same essential level as first responders. If it is why aren’t student who are going to be in the schools just like the teachers considered essential as well? Are we expecting kids to wear masks appropriately all day and properly social distance? Anyone with kids knows that is not possible. 

 

My 7 year old can wear masks and social distance all day.  The students have a natural immunity, the teachers don't.

 

A principal and a teacher died at a school in my district.  Teachers are generally on the front lines for airborne disease.  They deserve the protection, certainly before the software engineers.

 

There's not just one category of essential workers, it's everybody ranked by risk and importance to a functioning society.

[Starkiller]

36 minutes ago, OilerTitanHybrid said:

 

Remember, the vaccine does not prevent you from getting coronavirus.  You can still get the coronavirus.  It just helps to reduce the relative risk of disease from it.  And on top of that, we still don't know if we can give it to other people, if we get vaccinated.

Also we know that immunity after getting infected once isn’t permanent. So will the “immunity” from the vaccine be permanent or will it wear off like normal antibodies?

[Justafan]

Whoever is being affected by this the most should get it first.  Young healthy people (like those of us in the military) might get it but the impact is minimal.  Health care professionals I think are the obvious first start along with police and the like who have to interact every day with possible infected and then you have the older populations who have been decimated.  I would much rather the people with the highest risk get it before anyone else but that's just me.  
 

One thing I like about Biden is that I'm sure he will ask the experts and follow their recommendations so I'm not too worried about this.  Their opinion carries more weight (and should) than mine.  

[pat]

Prior to being a parent, I thought of school as babysitting.  It's so much more.

Baby sitting is "Here's a pizza and some ice cream.  Let the kid play video games until 8pm."

 

Teaching is "Regularly get kids to do things they will resist while never lapsing into negativity or setting a bad example."  It's a much closer to being a proxy for parenting, with the added stress of test scores ranking success.

 

Home schooling my son through this pandemic has really made me recognize the level of skill possessed by his teachers.

[OilerTitanHybrid]

10 minutes ago, Starkiller said:

Also we know that immunity after getting infected once isn’t permanent. So will the “immunity” from the vaccine be permanent or will it wear off like normal antibodies?

 

From what I've heard so far, it might just be temporary, like a few years.  Seen a couple people say that, but they also said they really didn't know yet.

 

I posted a link a few months ago that said people really needed 'neutralizing' antibodies to best protect themselves.  Haven't heard if this vaccine is good enough to create 'neutralizing' antibodies in people, or not.

[Starkiller]

1 minute ago, OilerTitanHybrid said:

 

From what I've heard so far, it might just be temporary, like a few years.  Seen a couple people say that, but they also said they really didn't know yet.

 

I posted a link a few months ago that said people really needed 'neutralizing' antibodies to best protect themselves.  Haven't heard if this vaccine is good enough to create 'neutralizing' antibodies in people, or not.

Even just a few years would be good for now if enough people get vaccinated.

 

But yes, the scientists will have to keep studying the results of the different vaccines for years to see how successful it really was.

[pat]

I don't mean to bust so hard on @CaliTitan3518@abenjami but I will stand for teachers 100%

[CaliTitan3518]

28 minutes ago, patsplat said:

 

My 7 year old can wear masks and social distance all day.  The students have a natural immunity, the teachers don't.

 

A principal and a teacher died at a school in my district.  Teachers are generally on the front lines for airborne disease.  They deserve the protection, certainly before the software engineers.

 

There's not just one category of essential workers, it's everybody ranked by risk and importance to a functioning society.

Kids have a stronger immunity but are still susceptible to contracting and spreading the virus. Its why they are at the top priority for age groupings to get the vaccine even over the higher risk age groupings. 

 

I’ve acknowledged the essential definition is pretty vague. There really needs to be a further tier breakdown of essential. Imo there is a big difference between someone who can teach from an online distance format to someone who is working in a first responder capacity. Right now they are being put in the same category which is nonsense. Shit I’m deemed an essential worker which is ridiculous. I honestly could have avoided coming in contact with a person for a work activity for the last 8 months. 
 

 

 

[CaliTitan3518]

28 minutes ago, patsplat said:

Prior to being a parent, I thought of school as babysitting.  It's so much more.

Baby sitting is "Here's a pizza and some ice cream.  Let the kid play video games until 8pm."

 

Teaching is "Regularly get kids to do things they will resist while never lapsing into negativity or setting a bad example."  It's a much closer to being a proxy for parenting, with the added stress of test scores ranking success.

 

Home schooling my son through this pandemic has really made me recognize the level of skill possessed by his teachers.

I’ve got 2 kids and I’m all for schools opening back up. The point is schools aren’t shut down because they are trying to protect teachers. They are shut down to slow/stop the spread because school literally intertwines households all over America. Throwing kids back into schools while only teachers are protected won’t do that. 

 

I run a company and manage my kids online schooling from home so trust me I get it. I’m over it and appreciate teachers. 
 

My original sarcastic comment was more about feeling bad for teachers as they “struggle” through having to adapt. How bad is it really having to do your job a little harder? There are people that would beg for their job right now. 

[abenjami]

8 hours ago, patsplat said:

 

Yes.  I hope you were amused by the Tesla snark, though I realize that between that and the other thread on nerd land I'm raging a bit.

 

I apologise for you getting most of it.  I made an inedible pot of beans and basically am hungry.

 

There are a bunch of directions I could go in my response, but I'll leave two points broadly.

 

First off, dual income is basic survival for some families.

 

Second, when parents are expected to be solely responsible for schooling it boils down to "mothers can't have careers"

 

 

I get this but we aren't talking about forever or long term here.  If that were the case I'd have a different opinion. 

 

We're talking about only a few months of time.