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23 hours ago, Bink said:

I need to watch this movie again, because the more I think about it the more I hate it, and I might like it less than the movie that gave us Jar Jar. 

 

I just keep thinking about how unnecessary it all is. 

 

OH THE BAD GUY HAS A MILLION SHIPS NOW AND THEY CAN ALL BLOW UP A PLANET. 

 

Why? That reads like fan fiction.

 

Yeah, Disney-fied fan fiction. Lazy ass writing. People criticize GOT S8 for bad writing, but give this shit a pass? I know GOT had its problems, but god damn... it was at least entertaining. JJ Abrams spent nearly the entire time just hurling random shit at the audience trying to distract from the story. "It's bad now?!? It's bad now. It's bad now." The beginning of the movie was just SHAZAM... Kylo slow-mo light sabering somebody. SHAZAM... having a pow wow with Palpatine... SHAZAM. It felt empty, directionless, pointless, and shoehorned.

 

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I am really struggling to think of what is even memorable about Rise of Skywalker. What was that cool, world shattering moment?

 

I'm guessing it was supposed to be the big reveal that Palpatine was Rey's grandfather, but Jar Jar bringing Ian McDiarmid back was just him trying to clean up Ruin's killing off Snoke. Palpatine being alive at all was retarded and ridiculous and completely fucked Anakin's story arc in the ass. That's bad enough, but then you pump him up to be OP as fuck after he got to suck on Rey's and Kylo's sweet life nectar... only to have Rey obliterate him into nothingness by projecting his lightning back onto him? The same lightning that he was using to wreck the shit out of the thousands of ships flying overhead? This little Mary Sue took him down and made him into dust? This little name-stealing paper Palpatine? She's the real chosen one now? Fuck. Off.

 

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Was it meant to be Han? Because that scene didn't affect me at all, and cheapened Hans final moment with Ben in a previous film.

 

For fucks sake, can't we have character development that isn't based on a ghost telling you what to do? 

 

It was ham-handed fan fiction. Obviously Han wasn't a force ghost as he didn't know anything about how to use the force, wasn't a force sensitive. It was Chris Terrio leading the audience around by the nose. Like you said, lazy character development.

 

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With that in mind, (and I get the limitations with Carrie Fisher), but I don't know if they could have written a film where Ben redeems himself and Luke and Leia seem less interested in it.

 

I didn't buy his redemption arc any more than I bought the dark side's grasp on him in TFA or TLJ. He was a petulant child who murdered his father in one film and was flip-flopping about his mommy in the other, but then somehow he comes to his senses because he heard mommy call out his name in this film? And I know they couldn't have made a film where Luke seems more interested in it because... well, because Luke is fucking dead. Thanks for all those fish, Ruin.

 

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Killing Ben? That is less consequential than keeping him alive. 

 

Seriously, the more I think about it the more it feels like a bad film and maybe the worst one. At least the prequels told a consistent, coherent story and the relationships between the characters developed and made sense.

 

I honestly need to go back and watch all these movies to remind myself how bad the prequels really are and compare it to this one because every day it feels like this is the worst movie of the whole bunch. 

 

IMO, the prequel hate is based on bloated expectations and hypocrisy. People shit on Jar Jar Binks... rightfully so... but turn a blind eye to Ewoks. The prequels did tell a consistent, coherent story. The films all had their problems. The little kid who played Anakin in the Phantom Menace was so horribly annoying, but Liam Neeson and Ewan McGregor were awesome as Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan (looking soooo very forward to Ewan's return to the role in the coming Obi-Wan series). The fight at the end with Darth Maul, a great character addition at that point, was great. And yes, Hayden's acting in Attack of the Clones was wooden... but his acting in Revenge of the Sith was much improved and it felt like he embodied the character much better. Was the dialogue clunky and bad at times? Yes, but that was true even in the OT. 

 

Even if you dislike or even hate the prequels, there's no way you're going to convince me that George Lucas wouldn't have made a far superior sequel story because the prequels are far superior to the sequels.

I don't care if they never make another Star Wars film again... this sequel trilogy needs to be de-canonized. I'm perfectly fine with the cinema story ending with ROTJ. Maybe The Mandalorian can take the story somewhere unique and provide a good foundation on which to build. Maybe they make movies based on that. Or maybe they just ride with The Mandalorian as it is.

Edited by NashvilleNinja

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5 hours ago, NashvilleNinja said:

 

I'm guessing it was supposed to be the big reveal that Palpatine was Rey's grandfather, but Jar Jar bringing Ian McDiarmid back was just him trying to clean up Ruin's killing off Snoke. Palpatine being alive at all was retarded and ridiculous and completely fucked Anakin's story arc in the ass. That's bad enough, but then you pump him up to be OP as fuck after he got to suck on Rey's and Kylo's sweet life nectar... only to have Rey obliterate him into nothingness by projecting his lightning back onto him? The same lightning that he was using to wreck the shit out of the thousands of ships flying overhead? This little Mary Sue took him down and made him into dust? This little name-stealing paper Palpatine? She's the real chosen one now? Fuck. Off.

 

 

Right. And how this is done is even more questionable. So Palpatine in all of this just had like a regular ass family? What? Given Palpatine and Rey's age difference the implication here is that he had a child while he was the evil emperor--and what, lost it? 

 

There's not really a good story way to give Palpatine a family that also is the family who dumped Rey somewhere. Skywalkers as a generational concept works because it didn't really skip a generation. 

 

Again, if this was the plan all along it REALLY should have been more well thought out. 

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1 hour ago, Bink said:

 

Right. And how this is done is even more questionable. So Palpatine in all of this just had like a regular ass family? What? Given Palpatine and Rey's age difference the implication here is that he had a child while he was the evil emperor--and what, lost it?

 

Yeah... in between creating clone armies, seducing all the Jedi he could, building death stars, and flinging Mace Windus out of windows he was dickin down the ladies.

 

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There's not really a good story way to give Palpatine a family that also is the family who dumped Rey somewhere. Skywalkers as a generational concept works because it didn't really skip a generation. 

 

Again, if this was the plan all along it REALLY should have been more well thought out. 

 

It wasn't. Idk what JJ's plan was for Snoke, but whatever it was Ruin Johnson did his deconstructionism thing with TLJ and completely fucked that in the head.

 

But it was more than just Ruin that ruined this crap. The reason the OT and the prequels work is because there is a coherent storyline weaving the movies together. It was always a sprawling, multi-film epic with George Lucas.

 

The sequel trilogy was done piecemeal. JJ made his movie and then Ruin came in to do his. Remember... JJ wasn't even originally slated to direct the 3rd installment. That was supposed to be Colin Trevorrow. But he was removed for whatever reason and JJ was brought back in to, I assume, "fix" things that Ruin broke. 

 

I think the sequel trilogy was botched from the moment Kathleen Kennedy and whoever else (Bob Iger?) decided to trash George Lucas's treatments for where the story should go and make up their own shit. But that's Disney for you.

 

 

hB7DE004B

Edited by NashvilleNinja

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On 1/13/2020 at 10:32 AM, Bink said:

I need to watch this movie again, because the more I think about it the more I hate it, and I might like it less than the movie that gave us Jar Jar. 

 

I just keep thinking about how unnecessary it all is. 

 

OH THE BAD GUY HAS A MILLION SHIPS NOW AND THEY CAN ALL BLOW UP A PLANET. 

 

Why? That reads like fan fiction. 

 

You had an incredibly strong core cast but the interactions between them mostly felt hollow. With this cast, they could have made a movie that was better than even Empire but they just fucked it up. This is inconceivable to me after what the first film set up because they are undoing and redoing what these characters mean to each other seemingly on the fly. Finn's need to tell Rey something? Okay. The way they used Lando to set up, what, this lame clusterfuck of all these ships showing up--"they came!". It was just so cheesy. The character bloat in all three of these films was absurd, great people like Keri Russell and Gwendoline Christie barely utilized. Kylo Ren's thugs just aimlessly wandering around. A cute new droid and a cute new creature--that barely feature in the film. BB8, oh what's he doing? How about Rose. 

 

Introduce all these characters, but have nothing to do with them. Make sure the plot revolves around old characters--why not? They do develop Kylo and Rey, but at the expense of everyone else.

 

I guess Clone Wars and Rebels has raised my expectations for Star Wars content. But at least in The Force Awakens and Last Jedi there were moments that felt objectively cool. The throne room fight in Last Jedi was dope. I disagree with a lot of what happened in Last Jedi and how it worked as a narrative but it had some powerful, striking moments.

 

I am really struggling to think of what is even memorable about Rise of Skywalker. What was that cool, world shattering moment?

 

Was it meant to be Han? Because that scene didn't affect me at all, and cheapened Hans final moment with Ben in a previous film. 

 

For fucks sake, can't we have character development that isn't based on a ghost telling you what to do? 

 

With that in mind, (and I get the limitations with Carrie Fisher), but I don't know if they could have written a film where Ben redeems himself and Luke and Leia seem less interested in it. 

 

With that in mind, how about having some stakes that you actually follow through with? 

 

Wiping Threepio's memory? Oh--he gets it back. 

 

Killing Ben? That is less consequential than keeping him alive. 

 

Seriously, the more I think about it the more it feels like a bad film and maybe the worst one. At least the prequels told a consistent, coherent story and the relationships between the characters developed and made sense.

 

I honestly need to go back and watch all these movies to remind myself how bad the prequels really are and compare it to this one because every day it feels like this is the worst movie of the whole bunch. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Good post. TLJ is the worst of the 9 films easy. TROS is right behind it. I can honestly say the prequels are better.

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9 hours ago, oldschool said:

 

 I can honestly say the prequels are better.

 

Just brutally damning 

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I hated how they copied a new hope with the first movie. I mean 3 death stars seriously? The big wigs were so lazy and wanted to get rid of the old characters that made Star Wars great as fast as they could. Just bad decisions all around.

Some how when i watched the new Star Wars it was heavy handed they wanted to make it all about female empowerment. Sounds sexist but it was hard not to ignore and I think it took away the story telling it seemed because thats all they cared about. 

Edited by headhunter

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4 hours ago, headhunter said:

I hated how they copied a new hope with the first movie. I mean 3 death stars seriously? The big wigs were so lazy and wanted to get rid of the old characters that made Star Wars great as fast as they could. Just bad decisions all around.

Some how when i watched the new Star Wars it was heavy handed they wanted to make it all about female empowerment. Sounds sexist but it was hard not to ignore and I think it took away the story telling it seemed because thats all they cared about. 

 

C'mon, I mean the force is female, remember?

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21 hours ago, oldschool said:

 

Good post. TLJ is the worst of the 9 films easy. TROS is right behind it. I can honestly say the prequels are better.


Both trilogies were bad in very different ways. But I’d say that the prequels felt more like Star Wars while the sequels felt more like a remake of Star Wars.

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This was a bad movie. I will never choose to watch it again.

 

I respect the prequels for the world building. Lucus at least had a coherent story. The execution was awful. Those movies are bad.

 

I can't say that these new movies being bad makes the old ones better. They both suck for different reasons.

 

RoS had so many very stupid things. The effects and acting are great. Adam Driver is a great actor. The Rey/Kylo stuff was some of the only interesting stuff in the movie.

 

Whoever had the awful idea of making it up as they went along should probably never be allowed to make another decision again.

 

Honestly I think TLJ is the best of the new ones, but that's not saying much. I still didn't like TLJ.

 

Star Wars peaked in 1980. Let that sink in.

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