Jonboy

Bye Week Talk: Outlook for 2019 and Beyond

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Pacman was a top cover CB and Devin Hester rolled up into one, he was never the same after the suspension

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2 hours ago, OILERMAN said:

Pacman was a top cover CB and Devin Hester rolled up into one, he was never the same after the suspension


I think it was...06 maybe...anyways, Pac-Man was very much in the discussion with Hester in regards to special teams play.  Everytime he touched the ball he was making a play.  He also made significant gains at CB, and had the moron not been suspended, he could have had a special career.  

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Still pissed we didn’t take White instead of Adoree but whatever.Hell mularkey his gimmicky shit figured he be a decent to elite return guy my god he’s horrible and plays ball well but can’t get int if it drops n his hands,we’ve all seen a few lol..

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On 11/17/2019 at 9:54 AM, OILERMAN said:

 

No one drafts the best WR to ever play the game, they just draft a WR. 

 

And you can try and single out extreme outliers but the fact is it's a mistake to use valuable resources to upgrade the WR position over many more positions. 

 

Here is a part of a great article:

 

Only dumb teams draft wide receivers in the first round, ignoring all the decades of evidence that these players will offer little to no impact on their fortunes.

Jerry Rice is the greatest wide receiver in history. Yet even he was a low-impact player. He did not make the 49ers a great team. The 49ers made him a great receiver. Rice was fortunate enough to be drafted in 1985 by the defending Super Bowl champion 49ers, who went 18-1 in 1984, scored 475 points, second best in the NFL, and destroyed Dan Marino's record-setting Dolphins 38-16 in the Super Bowl.

The 1984 49ers were probably the greatest team in franchise history. It was this dominant team that drafted Rice.

The 49ers played 10 years with the G-O-A-T Jerry Rice at wide receiver before they matched the 475 points they scored without him in 1984. In fact, only twice in 16 years with the G-O-AT Jerry Rice at wide receiver did the 49ers match the 475 points they scored without him in 1984 (505 in 1994; 479 in 1998).

Sure, the 49ers won three Super Bowls over the next 10 years with Rice at wide receiver (1988, 1989, 1994). But they had already won two Super Bowls in the previous four years without him (1981, 1984). Rice, like every other WR, was a non-impact player, despite his vast skills. 

Why was he a non-impact player? Because even the G-O-A-T Jerry Rice, the all-time leader in every receiving category, touched the ball just 5 times a game. That's it. In a sport with about 140 snaps per game, Rice touched the ball just on just 3.6 percent of all snaps in game. That's it. And he's the best of all time.

It's just common sense that wide receivers have minimal impact.

Teams that draft wide receivers in the first round almost always suffer as a result. They never get the impact expected. And these players, even when they do work out and became legit NFL receivers, do little to nothing to help a team get better.

 

 

"The 49ers made him a great receiver." Great article my ass. Rice was going to be great no matter where he was. He was 40 years old and still going to Pro Bowls and Super Bowls on the Raiders. Do you even watch football?

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1 hour ago, GOAT9 said:

"The 49ers made him a great receiver." Great article my ass. Rice was going to be great no matter where he was. He was 40 years old and still going to Pro Bowls and Super Bowls on the Raiders. Do you even watch football?

 

The article said Rice was the greatest WR in history 

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Lots of folks will disagree....but I've always believed WR is the most overrated position in the game.   Sure, they'll make a few highlight-reel plays and earn fantasy points....and they obviously generate tons of fan and media hype.  But the fact is, WR is a secondary position whose production is entirely dependent on the QB....there's no consistent, direct correlation between individual performance and the team's W/L record.

 

As far as Davis goes...I'm still on the fence.   He obviously has all the tools and a tremendous skill set....but he doesn't get open as consistently as one would hope for from a player in his position.   Despite his size, he hasn't been particularly good at winning physical matchups or contested catches this year....and his route-running can be a bit indecisive and inconsistent at times.   Rather than exploding off the line,  running with conviction and attacking DB's.... he sometimes makes hesitant, lazy cuts that make the DB's job easier while making the QB's job harder.

 

He obviously hasn't lived up to his draft position....some of which can be blamed on poor play at the QB position.   But a lot of the problem is on Davis himself.   He simply has to play better....and so far we're not seeing it.

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2 hours ago, nine said:

Lots of folks will disagree....but I've always believed WR is the most overrated position in the game.   Sure, they'll make a few highlight-reel plays and earn fantasy points....and they obviously generate tons of fan and media hype.  But the fact is, WR is a secondary position whose production is entirely dependent on the QB....there's no consistent, direct correlation between individual performance and the team's W/L record.

 

As far as Davis goes...I'm still on the fence.   He obviously has all the tools and a tremendous skill set....but he doesn't get open as consistently as one would hope for from a player in his position.   Despite his size, he hasn't been particularly good at winning physical matchups or contested catches this year....and his route-running can be a bit indecisive and inconsistent at times.   Rather than exploding off the line,  running with conviction and attacking DB's.... he sometimes makes hesitant, lazy cuts that make the DB's job easier while making the QB's job harder.

 

He obviously hasn't lived up to his draft position....some of which can be blamed on poor play at the QB position.   But a lot of the problem is on Davis himself.   He simply has to play better....and so far we're not seeing it.

I think a lot of it has to do with targets. Take the Steelers for example: Juju Smith was ready to take the mantle as the best WR in the league. Once Big Ben got hurt they transitioned their offense in to a check down heavy tight end based offense and Smith Shuster stats look as bad as Corey Davis’ do. Davis’ numbers have had an uptick with RT playing qb but there are still games where we only throw the ball 20 times. 

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I'm pretty much to the point that you should never draft a WR in the 1st round unless you have a Calvin Johnson type situation. Even then, I'd prioritize other needs depending on the situation. I loved Davis throughout the entire draft process and really felt he'd be a great fit here, but even I said I wouldn't take him at 5 over Jamal Adams.

 

FiveThirtyEight did an article on this a few years ago. WR is one of those positions where you consistently find quality and even star players in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. 

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9 minutes ago, Jonboy said:

I'm pretty much to the point that you should never draft a WR in the 1st round unless you have a Calvin Johnson type situation. Even then, I'd prioritize other needs depending on the situation. I loved Davis throughout the entire draft process and really felt he'd be a great fit here, but even I said I wouldn't take him at 5 over Jamal Adams.

 

FiveThirtyEight did an article on this a few years ago. WR is one of those positions where you consistently find quality and even star players in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. 

This is pretty much where i'm at, but would you call Julio a terrible pick?

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1 hour ago, IrishTitansFan said:

This is pretty much where I'm at, but would you call Julio a terrible pick?

 

You can give Atlanta credit in that Julio Jones is a great player but it's also a position where supply greatly exceeds demand.

 

They did, however, trade five draft picks to the Cleveland Browns to move up into their spot and take Jones:  the 27th, 59th, and 124th picks from the 2011 Draft, and their first (22nd) and fourth round (118) picks from the 2012 Draft.

 

 

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, OILERMAN said:

 

The article said Rice was the greatest WR in history 

The article said the 49ers made Rice great dumbass. I quoted it directly. What would that Raiders team had been without Brown and Rice? They would have been absolute garbage and they were absolute garbage when those 2 WRs were done. Having an Elite WR on the field absolutely has a large impact. It can completely change the way the opposition has to play defense. Between this and your stupid takes on Derrick Henry, you have been on a good dumb streak lately. 

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3 hours ago, Thrill said:

I think a lot of it has to do with targets. Take the Steelers for example: Juju Smith was ready to take the mantle as the best WR in the league. Once Big Ben got hurt they transitioned their offense in to a check down heavy tight end based offense and Smith Shuster stats look as bad as Corey Davis’ do. Davis’ numbers have had an uptick with RT playing qb but there are still games where we only throw the ball 20 times. 

 

What? JSS is proof you dont just become a #1 because the previous #1 left. A lot of his success was predicated on the attention Brown got.

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https://blacksportsonline.com/2019/11/the-titans-have-made-progress-under-ryan-tannehill-heres-why-they-cant-have-a-letdown-after-beating-the-chiefs-videos/

 

Good article about how stubborn and dumb the offense is under Arthur Smith. 

 

Get them some screens, scheme them open as many times as possible instead of relying on a running game to get them open, literally anything else other than long developing dig routes off of play action out of a heavy set with 3 tight ends.

Want more suggestions? Run them a slant or 2, these top 3 WRs have too much RAC ability and savvy to get open to NOT try it.

 

There are so many ways you can run simple concepts and routes to get these 3 the ball, but yet, the Titans are way too hesitant to jump on the opportunity.

There shouldn’t be a game where the Titans can’t find a way to get the ball in the hands of Humphries, Davis, and Brown a combined 10 times a game.

Especially when it comes against defenses with secondaries that are pieced together by years old pieces of office tape.

Edited by abc2330

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If the WR is elite talent, then it is worth using a top 5 pick on. The problem with Davis is that he is not an Elite WR, never was, and never should have been drafted that high. Davis was a late 1st, Early 2nd caliber WR. Like some others on here, I wanted Adams and the idea of having Byard and Adams would make them the best safety tandem in the league IMO. But it is what it is. Our WR corps is solid, theres no need to make any changes to it. I would address the TE position. Walker is on his way out and we don't have anybody else that stands out. Finding a Jason Witten style TE that contributes to the running and passing game would be ideal. 

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20 minutes ago, oldschool said:

 

What? JSS is proof you dont just become a #1 because the previous #1 left. A lot of his success was predicated on the attention Brown got.

JSS had his 2nd highest reception count this year in the one game that Big Ben played. He’d be a top 5-10 WR statistically with the right qb and game plan.
 

Calvin Johnson would barely be a top 10 WR statistically with this offense. Even with Tannehill playing well we spread the ball around and feature different guys every week while still throwing at a low volume. 

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