cenj Posted November 7, 2019 Report Share Posted November 7, 2019 JRob has a mixed track record so far, but he did get the personnel for Pees to have a top 5 defense. That suggests that with a good QB and a good offensive coach, he might have gathered enough talent for a much better offense. In other words, JRob has earned some rope. Vrabel on the other hand might hang himself unless he agrees to fire his offensive staff and allow a new OC to come in and run a modern system, one without Vrabel's micro-managing hands. Although for the record, I'm not down on Arthur Smith as much as some. I need to see more from him with a competent QB. No1TitansFan, OILERMAN, oldschool, and 1 other 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryBoats Posted November 7, 2019 Report Share Posted November 7, 2019 3 hours ago, Mythos27 said: J-Rob has absolutely failed regarding the OL. There is no question about it. He did more to try to address it this off-season but he royally messed it up last off season by thinking that the inside trio of Spain, Jones, and Kline was good enough. I had high hopes for Nate Davis but that seems to have been a swing and a miss and we pretty clearly overpaid for Saffold as Quinton Spain is having a really good season for the Bills and literally just made PFF's team of the week by posting a grade of 80.7. Spain is ranked lower than Saffold while playing some of the shittiest teams known to man. Washington, Miami, NYJ, NYG. Everyone would be bitching about him and how he should have been replaced if he were still here. I agree that we should expect more, but a player excelling elsewhere and struggling on offense here should fall on someone else, like our shitty OC. If we go by PFF, we've had 2 top 5 OLs (including #1), another top 10 OL, and we are still in the top half of the league at the last ranking despite always being in shitty situations because of our shitty OC. If he's failed anywhere, it's not making quality offensive coaching a top priority. Number9, and oldschool 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythos27 Posted November 7, 2019 Report Share Posted November 7, 2019 13 minutes ago, abc2330 said: Spain is ranked lower than Saffold while playing some of the shittiest teams known to man. Washington, Miami, NYJ, NYG. Everyone would be bitching about him and how he should have been replaced if he were still here. I agree that we should expect more, but a player excelling elsewhere and struggling on offense here should fall on someone else, like our shitty OC. If we go by PFF, we've had 2 top 5 OLs (including #1), another top 10 OL, and we are still in the top half of the league at the last ranking despite always being in shitty situations because of our shitty OC. If he's failed anywhere, it's not making quality offensive coaching a top priority. Spain is rated 1 point lower than Saffold and rice cost a fraction of the price. I would gladly reverse that move since we're clearly going to need the resources to fix this mess. Both Lewan and Conklin have struggled big time despite being rated as "starters" by pff. The OL is massively underperforming and everyone can see it. You can choose to blame the forget QB and the new OC. I blame the guys themselves for not playing up to their open standards. They sucked under Lafleur most of last year too and were even worse at creating running room than they are this season. At some point the excuses gotta run out. IMO last game the OL made Smith look bad, not the other way around. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryBoats Posted November 7, 2019 Report Share Posted November 7, 2019 2 minutes ago, Mythos27 said: Spain is rated 1 point lower than Saffold and rice cost a fraction of the price. I would gladly reverse that move since we're clearly going to need the resources to fix this mess. Both Lewan and Conklin have struggled big time despite being rated as "starters" by pff. The OL is massively underperforming and everyone can see it. You can choose to blame the forget QB and the new OC. I blame the guys themselves for not playing up to their open standards. They sucked under Lafleur most of last year too and were even worse at creating running room than they are this season. At some point the excuses gotta run out. IMO last game the OL made Smith look bad, not the other way around. So does PFF count, or not? You can't use it to claim that Spain is having a very good season then say it's inaccurate because it doesn't align with what you see. DecepticonShawn, and Number9 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythos27 Posted November 7, 2019 Report Share Posted November 7, 2019 1 minute ago, abc2330 said: So does PFF count, or not? You can't use it to claim that Spain is having a very good season then say it's inaccurate because it doesn't align with what you see. I didn't say PFF is inaccurate or invalid. I'm saying that it's not the only factor than can be used. Spain is a ridiculously cheap UDFA that is playing at the same level as our highly priced FA acquisition. He's playing well. Saffold started off really rocky and he's doing better now but I'd still take the guy who is playing at the same level for a fraction of the price. Here I'll ask you this; if the Titans knew (before they signed Saffold) that that Saffold and Spain would have a nearly identical PFF grade the following season, do you think they would've let Spain walk and paid top dollar for Saffold? You know the answer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charleytolar Posted November 7, 2019 Report Share Posted November 7, 2019 @japan-- you are panicked that I'm proving to be right... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgo Posted November 7, 2019 Report Share Posted November 7, 2019 7 hours ago, Mythos27 said: J-Rob has absolutely failed regarding the OL. There is no question about it. He did more to try to address it this off-season but he royally messed it up last off season by thinking that the inside trio of Spain, Jones, and Kline was good enough. I had high hopes for Nate Davis but that seems to have been a swing and a miss and we pretty clearly overpaid for Saffold as Quinton Spain is having a really good season for the Bills and literally just made PFF's team of the week by posting a grade of 80.7. I would not say that at all, although he should have shored up the RG spot more. We have probably the most talented OL overall in the entire league, not sure how he has failed. bosss50 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titans279 Posted November 7, 2019 Report Share Posted November 7, 2019 9 minutes ago, tgo said: I would not say that at all, although he should have shored up the RG spot more. We have probably the most talented OL overall in the entire league, not sure how he has failed. What makes you think it’s still the most talented? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post tgo Posted November 7, 2019 Popular Post Report Share Posted November 7, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Titans279 said: What makes you think it’s still the most talented? Look around the league and show me an OL group that has more talented/better personnel overall. Pro Bowl/All Pro tackles (IMO - Lewan is the best LT in the game when on his game), Pro Bowl guard, PFF's 2nd highest ranked center. RG is the only spot you could possibly upgrade if you wanted to. Like really, people can say Robinson has done a bad job with the group somehow, but I'd challenge those people to name an OLineman that is available or coming available that would upgrade any of the 4 spots other than RG and is a better player. The offensive line coach is a problem. If you cannot generate a top OL with this group, you have a coaching problem imo. Edited November 7, 2019 by tgo ChemEngr79, Tnasty, No1TitansFan, and 3 others 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titans279 Posted November 7, 2019 Report Share Posted November 7, 2019 (edited) Dallas? I think you can’t say most talented at this point. You’re leaning way to much on accomplishments from years ago at this point. Lewan seems to be struggling without his PED’s and Conklin hasn’t been that good since his rookie year. Jones has a 68.3 from PFF which is below their starter level grade. He’s fine but not great. RG is obviously a huge problem. Saffold has past accolades but I think we’re seeing his limitations this year. He isn’t an elite G because of his limitations. Edited November 7, 2019 by Titans279 Mythos27 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgo Posted November 7, 2019 Report Share Posted November 7, 2019 4 minutes ago, Titans279 said: Dallas? I think you can’t say most talented at this point. You’re leaning way to much on accomplishments from years ago at this point. Lewan seems to be struggling without his PED’s and Conklin hasn’t been that good since his rookie year. Jones has a 68.3 from PFF which is below their starter level grade. He’s fine but not great. RG is obviously a huge problem. Saffold has past accolades but I think we’re seeing his limitations this year. He isn’t an elite G because of his limitations. Yeah, overall Dallas is probably more talented. But they may be the only one. I think the issue with Saffold is subtle scheme changes and a difference in required technique and coaching styles, as he has said. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzTitan Posted November 7, 2019 Report Share Posted November 7, 2019 I think JR is safe for now, but the offensive failures are tantamount to a fireable offence. Finding a new QB is going to occupy his working days, but he has a lot of work to do and is probably in a death spiral on the matter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OILERMAN Posted November 8, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2019 8 hours ago, cenj said: JRob has a mixed track record so far, but he did get the personnel for Pees to have a top 5 defense. That suggests that with a good QB and a good offensive coach, he might have gathered enough talent for a much better offense. In other words, JRob has earned some rope. Vrabel on the other hand might hang himself unless he agrees to fire his offensive staff and allow a new OC to come in and run a modern system, one without Vrabel's micro-managing hands. Although for the record, I'm not down on Arthur Smith as much as some. I need to see more from him with a competent QB. Exactly where I'm at cenj 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzTitan Posted November 8, 2019 Report Share Posted November 8, 2019 Does Vrabel even have much of a say in OC? If JR is running the show then probably not. I guess he can quit if he doesn't like it. Any OC change will surely come with a condition that Vrabel is done making calls on offense. Smith and the offense will have to finish really strong for a move not to be made. Even if he isn't a big problem I think it will be hard to sell 2020 without some fundamental change on offense, and OC is always prime for that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
japan Posted November 8, 2019 Report Share Posted November 8, 2019 2 hours ago, charleytolar said: @japan-- you are panicked that I'm proving to be right... About what? That you are a whiny bitch? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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