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Cosell on Victory Over Browns

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2 minutes ago, big2033 said:

 

I'm not sure if Cossell sees it that way. 

 

Like, can you resist the urge to deflect? You know Cosell doesn't necessarily think highly of Mariota as an above average passer. So why are you trying to deflect from his point of view?

 

Disagree with him if you want, but it's obvious he doesn't think this is standard for top five QBs, nor is it indicative of his oline. He'd say it in the numerous times he's been on the show if he believed this.

 

He believes the team is simplifying things for Mariota's limitations.

 

I don’t have to read the entirety of your post. I obviously wasn’t talking about Cossell. 

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13 minutes ago, IsntLifeFunny said:

 

 

Not that I entirely disagree with the premise, but do either of you think Goff, Dak, Kaep could have played like Mariota against Dallas last year? We were in 3rd and long the entire game. No running game whatsoever and a ton of penalties. He hit 3rd and long time after time. You guys actually think he can’t do it? Or do you think he can’t do it consistently? 

All three of those guys have had better games than the game you point out so yes, I do think they could have.  Dak has had far more big games than Mariota and so has Goff.  

 

Mariota can do it because he did it in that game.  In limited circumstances.  Against certain opponents.  All QBs can do it in spurts.  BG put up 5tds on the Patriots one week doing nothing but short crossing routes.  But week in and week out he can't do it.  He cannot do it.  

 

He'll be better against bad defenses and he'll probably be a little better against Man heavy defenses and teams that don't have the LBs to contain.  Good defenses, especially zone defenses give him fits.  Disciplined defenses give him fits.  Defenses that generate pressure give him fits.  All for the same reasons.  He doesn't have the ability to drop back, sit in the pocket and pick apart a defense.  

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Just now, IsntLifeFunny said:

Me either. I don’t think any but the elite can do that. I’ve seen him do it though, multiple times. Have you ever seen Dak or Goff do it? This isn’t a question about who is better, merely an honest question. I’ve watched quite a bit of those two and never once seen them do well when trailing or in bad situations. 

 

Here's what unfortunately sets them apart from Mariota in my opinion.

 

Arm strength and aggressiveness downfield. Especially in Goff. This is big from a play-action QB. Allows for tougher throws and more aggressive chunk plays.

 

With Mariota it just seems like it has to be heavily schemed and wide open to happen. Goff and Dak routinely pull the trigger to the sideline.

 

With Mariota it's always seams and crossers.

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2 minutes ago, Justafan said:

All three of those guys have had better games than the game you point out so yes, I do think they could have.  Dak has had far more big games than Mariota and so has Goff.  

 

Mariota can do it because he did it in that game.  In limited circumstances.  Against certain opponents.  All QBs can do it in spurts.  BG put up 5tds on the Patriots one week doing nothing but short crossing routes.  But week in and week out he can't do it.  He cannot do it.  

 

He'll be better against bad defenses and he'll probably be a little better against Man heavy defenses and teams that don't have the LBs to contain.  Good defenses, especially zone defenses give him fits.  Disciplined defenses give him fits.  Defenses that generate pressure give him fits.  All for the same reasons.  He doesn't have the ability to drop back, sit in the pocket and pick apart a defense.  

 

I’m not talking about this game. I was speaking specifically about games like Dallas last year where Mariota has no run game and was consistently in 3rd and +9. 

 

 

Edited by IsntLifeFunny

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Just now, IsntLifeFunny said:

 

I’m not talking about this game. I was speaking specifically about games like Dallas last year where Mariota has no run game and was consistently in 3rd and +9. 

 

 

So was I.  

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2 minutes ago, IsntLifeFunny said:

 

I don’t have to read the entirety of your post. I obviously wasn’t talking about Cossell. 

 

Well us sharing Cossell's perspective (the reason for this thread) automatically attaches it to him.

 

I don't believe other QBs have a similar "simplified offense" to Mariota. And it's obvious Cossell doesn't either, someone who's smarter than us when it comes to analyzing QBs.

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1 minute ago, big2033 said:

 

Here's what unfortunately sets them apart from Mariota in my opinion.

 

Arm strength and aggressiveness downfield. Especially in Goff. This is big from a play-action QB. Allows for tougher throws and more aggressive chunk plays.

 

With Mariota it just seems like it has to be heavily schemed and wide open to happen. Goff and Dak routinely pull the trigger to the sideline.

 

With Mariota it's always seams and crossers.

This is a legitimate criticism and I don't know really know that he can better at it.  It speaks to his arm strength or lack therefore.

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1 minute ago, big2033 said:

 

Here's what unfortunately sets them apart from Mariota in my opinion.

 

Arm strength and aggressiveness downfield. Especially in Goff. This is big from a play-action QB. Allows for tougher throws and more aggressive chunk plays.

 

With Mariota it just seems like it has to be heavily schemed and wide open to happen. Goff and Dak routinely pull the trigger to the sideline.

 

With Mariota it's always seams and crossers.

 

Yep. This is a real source of the problem with MM behind center. He’s made for a more open offense, but he’s simply inconsistent when it isn’t PA. I would like to see them open things up and run PA from 11 and from shotgun to try it out. If you’re going to keep him behind center might as well find out what you have. 

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2 minutes ago, IsntLifeFunny said:

 

I’m not talking about this game. I was speaking specifically about games like Dallas last year where Mariota has no run game and was consistently in 3rd and +9. 

 

 

It was really impressive when he fumbled the ball several times and missed Davis in the end zone for the easiest TD ever

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Just now, rns90 said:

This is a legitimate criticism and I don't know really know that he can better at it.  It speaks to his arm strength or lack therefore.

 

I've realized in watching Mariota compared to other QBs of less experience that arm strength and attitude allow you to get away with bad mechanics, core etc.

 

Because he doesn't have that his room for error is much lower in my opinion.

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1 minute ago, IsntLifeFunny said:

Then I don’t think you’re right. Dak and Goff play well with a lead. They crumble when they’re forced to do straight drop backs. 

Dallas didn't even run PA that much prior to the first game this year

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5 minutes ago, IsntLifeFunny said:

 

Yep. This is a real source of the problem with MM behind center. He’s made for a more open offense, but he’s simply inconsistent when it isn’t PA. I would like to see them open things up and run PA from 11 and from shotgun to try it out. If you’re going to keep him behind center might as well find out what you have. 

 

I'm honestly hoping, if we go after a QB, that arm strength is a big factor for us.

 

We have a horse at running back and some big receivers. We need a QB that can sling it if Mariota doesn't work.

 

A "simplified" QB can succeed in today's NFL, but if you don't have the strength to throw from any spot you're severely limited as a starter.

 

I've never seen a QB that has to square up to throw with velocity as much as Mariota right now. We have all the young signal callers breaking that rule with ease.

Edited by big2033

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