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Cosell on Victory Over Browns

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26 minutes ago, LongTimeFan said:

So the OC developed a game plan that played to the strengths of the players he had available and people want to bitch that the QB has problems when throwing from the pocket? Who says the QB has to throw from the pocket to win a SB? All the previous SB winning coaches we have on this forum?

 

Mariota on this board is comparable to fighting a gay dude.  If you win, you were supposed to but if you lose, you are the worst fighter in the world.  

Edited by Righteous

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59 minutes ago, LongTimeFan said:

So the OC developed a game plan that played to the strengths of the players he had available and people want to bitch that the QB has problems when throwing from the pocket? Who says the QB has to throw from the pocket to win a SB? All the previous SB winning coaches we have on this forum?

 

Mariota stans:

 

"He is great he's just not healthy doesn't have the players!"

 

Analysts point out his struggles regardless of health and weapons  ...

 

"Well who said we needed him to be great? You guys are such haters!"

 

Stop moving the goal posts. If you're willing to accept Mariota has been playing like an average QB at best and stop blaming others then everyone is square.

 

But that's not happening, it's the excuses after excuses that are more annoying than anything.

 

Some are even making excuses for Cosell's actual opinion. Like ... enough is enough.

 

Edited by big2033

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42 minutes ago, Righteous said:

 

Mariota on this board is comparable to fighting a gay dude.  If you win, you were supposed to but if you lose, you are the worst fighter in the world.  

 

No it's comparable to everyone,- analysts/coaches/GMs - saying he's gay and none of his fan girls accepting it.

 

"If the women around him were just hotter he'd let loose!" You all say ... 

 

Or

 

"He's only like that because it was only guys at the party ..." 

 

Meanwhile he's been banging dudes regardless of his surroundings for over four years.

 

Just accept what he is and stop trying to spin it. 

Edited by big2033

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Baker’s excuse was he’s a second year player making his 15th start. The old adage is you want to give them about 32 starts to see if they have it. Dak Prescott said something clicked for him in the final 6 games last year which was his 42nd start. 
 

Mariota was a 5th year player making his 56th start. At this point we’re like Robiskie still waiting for it to “pop.”

 

How many of you still think Jameis  could get it?

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10 hours ago, Justafan said:

Cossell wasn't saying the entire offense was one read but that doesn't matter.  He did specifically say they had to scheme around Mariota's limitations and he specifically said one of the ways they did that was the use of one read plays.  The implication is clear.  

 

People need to accept the fact that Mariota simply is not what we all want him to be.  I think he can be productive in this system but like Cossell said, that's because the coaches are doing an outstanding job scheming offense in spite of his limitations rather than his talent shining within a scheme.  

 

They've done a great job of that with Goff in LA but I question how sustainable it is because without a true drop back passer, it is just so difficult to stay ahead of these defensive coordinators.  Look at what the Patriots did to the Rams in the Superbowl.  At some point, you have to be able to drop back and pass and beat a team from the pocket.  Mariota simply can't do that right now or at least has shown us evidence that indicates that he can't do that and the coaches have shown us evidence that they don't think he can do it and the last two years is a huge sample size of him not being able to do it, at least not consistently.

 

He has 15 games, assuming he stays healthy.  This level of play is fine for a guy working on a rookie contract but I just don't see anyway that you can give a guy a long term deal making 25m+ when street FAs or rookies are matching that level of production or even surpassing it.  The only thing Mariota gives you right now is that he doesn't turn the ball over very much and he's fairly accurate when given time.  That's just not enough.  

 

9 hours ago, OILERMAN said:

 

Going back a few years ago the narrative was Mularkey was keeping MM from being this Mahomes/Rodgers type QB. Even the most die hard MM supporters have to accept that's never going to happen, it's not even close. 

 

What he is is a RGIII/Kaep type of mobile one read QB who the coaches have to scheme around. Kaep almost won a SB doing it but that SF team was absolutely loaded.

 

The problem is it's extremely unlikely you'll contend if you can't be a pocket passer. The other issue is it's easily replaceable. In fact it would be hard not to find a guy who can be a better true drop back passer than MM is, he basically can't do it. 

 

Not that I entirely disagree with the premise, but do either of you think Goff, Dak, Kaep could have played like Mariota against Dallas last year? We were in 3rd and long the entire game. No running game whatsoever and a ton of penalties. He hit 3rd and long time after time. You guys actually think he can’t do it? Or do you think he can’t do it consistently? 

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9 hours ago, OILERMAN said:

 

It's Mularkey, it's the protection, it's the dropped passes, it's the ulnar nerve, it's LaFleur 

 

Lewan played last year and they still had MM throw 60% of his passes at or behind the line and the team ran the ball on 1st down more than anyone but one team

I’m pretty sure it was your sidekick who noted all teams are throwing like that. 

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2 minutes ago, IsntLifeFunny said:

 

 

Not that I entirely disagree with the premise, but do either of you think Goff, Dak, Kaep could have played like Mariota against Dallas last year? We were in 3rd and long the entire game. No running game whatsoever and a ton of penalties. He hit 3rd and long time after time. You guys actually think he can’t do it? Or do you think he can’t do it consistently? 


How sure are you that they never have games like that? I almost never watch them so maybe they have had games where they’ve done it and we just don’t know. 

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Just now, Titans279 said:


How sure are you that they never have games like that? I almost never watch them so maybe they have had games where they’ve done it and we just don’t know. 

 

That’s fair. 

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1 hour ago, big2033 said:

I agree but that wasn't Cosell's point.

Maybe I misunderstood but I thought people were saying that play was called in that situation because the playbook was being simplified because of MM's inabilities. All I was saying is I thought that was the right playcall for that particular situation regardless of who was at QB.

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1 minute ago, freakingeek said:

Maybe I misunderstood but I thought people were saying that play was called in that situation because the playbook was being simplified because of MM's inabilities. All I was saying is I thought that was the right playcall for that particular situation regardless of who was at QB.

Their overall point was the playbook as a whole is being limited because of Mariota. They aren’t necessarily wrong, but this is a strange game to state it as such. Without Lewan and Pamphile against a top front four it was simply the right move. 

 

Essentially they’re always comparing MM to top 5 QBs. 

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15 minutes ago, IsntLifeFunny said:

 

 

Not that I entirely disagree with the premise, but do either of you think Goff, Dak, Kaep could have played like Mariota against Dallas last year? We were in 3rd and long the entire game. No running game whatsoever and a ton of penalties. He hit 3rd and long time after time. You guys actually think he can’t do it? Or do you think he can’t do it consistently? 

I don't think he can do it consistently.  Maybe one game or two.  But to do it for multiple weeks where you have to scan the field and make throws into tight windows, maniupulate the pocket etc, no I don't think he can do it.

 

Here's FO's take on Browns vs Titans

 

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/any-given-sunday/2019/any-given-sunday-titans-over-browns

 

Some excerpts:

 

But the salve to that was that Marcus Mariota ran a ton of play-action on first down out of run formations, and that was where the Titans made hay in this game. Per my layman's count, the Titans used play-action on a little under half of their passing plays. Almost every big play in the passing game came off of it.

 

They needed it, because without the play-action, Mariota was even more hurried than Mayfield. Mariota looked skittish at times, and he didn't deal well with resetting after that pressure. Almost none of Tennessee's passing production came out of a typical passing game structure.

That sets up the Titans, at least from what we've seen so far, as a true game-script team. Give them the ability to throw off play-action and ride Henry, and they'll make your life miserable. Give them the ball down 10 and ask Mariota to lead a comeback? That's an area we still need to know more about.

 

 

Edited by rns90

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4 minutes ago, IsntLifeFunny said:

Their overall point was the playbook as a whole is being limited because of Mariota. They aren’t necessarily wrong, but this is a strange game to state it as such. Without Lewan and Pamphile against a top front four it was simply the right move. 

 

Essentially they’re always comparing MM to top 5 QBs. 

 

I'm not sure if Cossell sees it that way. 

 

Like, can you resist the urge to deflect? You know Cosell doesn't necessarily think highly of Mariota as an above average passer. So why are you trying to deflect from his point of view?

 

Disagree with him if you want, but it's obvious he doesn't think this is standard for top five QBs, nor is it indicative of his oline. He'd say it in the numerous times he's been on the show if he believed this.

 

He believes the team is simplifying things for Mariota's limitations.

Edited by big2033

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I feel like people just get irked by criticisms that put Mariota in a box and the knee-jerk reaction is try to defend him.

 

Quarterback for your team can be a tribal thing, but at some point you have to let it go. Our QB is not as good as a lot of other QBs right now ... 

Edited by big2033

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1 minute ago, rns90 said:

I don't think he can do it consistently.  Maybe one game or two.  But to do it for multiple weeks where you have to scan the field and make throws into tight windows, maniupulate the pocket etc, no I don't think he can do it.

 

 

 

Me either. I don’t think any but the elite can do that. I’ve seen him do it though, multiple times. Have you ever seen Dak or Goff do it? This isn’t a question about who is better, merely an honest question. I’ve watched quite a bit of those two and never once seen them do well when trailing or in bad situations. 

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