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Preseason Week 1: Titans @ Eagles Game Thread

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59 minutes ago, oldschool said:

Big doesn't understand nuance or extenuating circumstances. He's  a black and white guy. You are either great or you suck because being average isn't good enough. Maybe he's a child of the 90's and took No Fear marketing too literally. 

Again lol ... how did this become about me? He wasn't even replying to me. 

 

Guys ... get over me. You're not going to win your personal vendetta.

Edited by big2033

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1 hour ago, oldschool said:

Big doesn't understand nuance or extenuating circumstances. He's  a black and white guy. You are either great or you suck because being average isn't good enough. Maybe he's a child of the 90's and took No Fear marketing too literally. 

It definitely does come off that way but I don't think that he doesn't understand it but rather that he chooses not to accept it. Not to put words in his mouth but I think he thinks that focusing on extenuating circumstances and the intricacies of multiple moving parts just distracts from the more simple or apparent conclusions. Thus if a player is struggling, the player himself is more than likely the problem. It's more an Occam's razor mentality than anything else IMO. I tend to see things differently and give external factors more weight which I think is partly why he and I tend to see situations so differently. I think you fall somewhere in there middle or kind of swing from one end to the other depending on the circumstances. 

Edited by Mythos27

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1 hour ago, oldschool said:

Big doesn't understand nuance or extenuating circumstances. He's  a black and white guy. You are either great or you suck because being average isn't good enough. Maybe he's a child of the 90's and took No Fear marketing too literally. 

And @oldschool you went from defending Mariota to trashing him as a beta after one preseason game ... please don't lecture anyone on being too "black and white."

 

You've been all over the place on Mariota.

Edited by big2033

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3 minutes ago, Mythos27 said:

It definitely does come off that way but I don't think that he doesn't understand it but rather that he chooses not to accept it. Not to put words in his mouth but I think he thinks that focusing on extenuating circumstances and the intricacies of multiple moving parts just distracts from the more simple or apparent conclusions. Thus if a player is struggling, the player himself is more than likely they problem. It's more an Occam's razor mentality than anything else IMO. I tend to see things differently and give external factors more weight which I think is partly why he and I tend to see situations so differently. I think you fall somewhere in there middle or kind of swing from one end to the other depending on the circumstances. 

Nah ... when it comes to players in the league for an extended amount of time ... I start looking at their overall performance and not their circumstances. 

 

After a couple of years, I expect good players to play well regardless of what's around him. My stance is not rocket science. 

Edited by big2033

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42 minutes ago, big2033 said:

Nah ... when it comes to players in the league for an extended amount of time ... I start looking at their overall performance and not their circumstances. 

 

After a couple of years, I expect good players to play well regardless of what's around him. My stance is not rocket science. 

Right. You feel that good players play well regardless and you don't care much about the player's circumstances. That's what I was trying to get at. 

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8 minutes ago, Mythos27 said:

Right. You feel that good players play well regardless and you don't care much about the player's circumstances. That's what I was trying to get at. 

Eventually, yes. I'm optimistic as hell at first. But ultimately, nobody will care why a player flops because in the end the situation doesn't matter.

Edited by big2033

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5 minutes ago, big2033 said:

Eventually, yes. I'm optimistic as hell at first. But ultimately, nobody will care why a player flops. 

I'm guessing you go with a 1-2 year grace period? Unless the guy is obviously horrible of course.

Edited by Mythos27

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5 minutes ago, Mythos27 said:

I'm guessing you go with a 1-2 year grace period? Unless the guy is obviously horrible of course.

About 1-2 for a RB, LB, DE ... about 2-3 for other positions. I just base it on how most players at their position are doing on average.

 

Of course, anomalies are possible.

Edited by big2033

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1 minute ago, big2033 said:

About 1-2 for a RB, LB, DE ... about 2-3 for other positions. 

I'm a bit more lenient (2-4 for pretty much every position) but I do tend to decide a player isn't elite and likely won't ever be if they don't break out by the end year 3.  You have to be pretty bad for me to lose all hope though. I might completely jump ship on Taylor this year if he keeps dropping everything.  

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1 hour ago, big2033 said:

And @oldschool you went from defending Mariota to trashing him as a beta after one preseason game ... please don't lecture anyone on being too "black and white."

 

You've been all over the place on Mariota.

Don't misrepresent. I've been down on Mariota for a while and have said for over a year I wasn't optimistic he could turn it around. What I've been taking issue with is the silly idea he is Lamar Jackson bad at passing. You and Oman have been so over the top with your criticism it's ridiculous.

Edited by oldschool

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3 hours ago, Mythos27 said:

They only thing I disagree with here is that you think none of this applies to Mariota while I do. The players are of similar talent and the situations they've been in during their careers are very similar. Even if you are correct, you have to see that to have hope for Tannehill, you HAVE to place a good degree of blame on his supporting cast and when you do that you automatically open yourself up to the "excuses excuses" counter that Maria supporters have been fighting all year. I personally agree with you but people like Big, don't think that way which is why he's doing to you what he's done to the Mariota supporters. He is however being consistent, while with you it seems like you're ok with making excuses for one guy while dismissing any and all excuses for another guy who you've made no bones about shitting on. You gotta see that it's a bad look even if you are being genuine.

Big's point seems to be that Tannehill isn't a great QB.  That's clear.   Nobody said that he was.  I'm not sure where he's going with that.  Russell Wilson isn't exactly on the market.  

Edited by abc2330
N

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On 8/9/2019 at 10:17 PM, big2033 said:

What I'm starting to learn ... if you have a running/scrambling QB he better have a gun or you have an Alex Smith that will struggle on plays that don't go according to script.

 

You’re making me think of Billy Blanks in “Any Given Sunday.” Shoot everyone in your way. Off yourself in the end!

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1 minute ago, abc2330 said:

Big's point seems to be that Tannehill isn't a great QB.  That's clear.   Nobody said that he was.  I'm not sure where he's going with that.

I'd wager he also thinks he's average at best while you at least seem to think he's better than that and are making excuses for him.   

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23 minutes ago, oldschool said:

Don't misrepresent. I've been down on Mariota for a while and have said for over a year I wasn't optimistic he could turn it around. What I've been taking issue with is the silly idea he is Lamar Jackson bad at passing. You and Oman have been so over the top with your criticism it's ridiculous.

LOL again, I have never said that. It's apparent to me you just don't like the way I attack the situation.

 

But I have never said Mariota is horrible passer. Mariota has horrible passing stats. And I just said his struggles are his own fault - whatever they may be. But you want to paint me as a extremist to help make you feel better. 

 

Extremist is someone bristling when someones says a QBs stats last year were horrible ... EVEN THOUGH THEY WERE.

 

I also know other experts have said he's not a good passer. 

 

Whatever argument you guys want to have, you can't deny what's staring you in the face. Denying it is extreme.

Edited by big2033

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10 minutes ago, Mythos27 said:

I'd wager he also thinks he's average at best while you at least seem to think he's better than that and are making excuses for him.   

What am I excusing?  I don't think that Miami has been bad enough or that his performance has been bad enough to excuse.  And I'd kind of like to see what average looks like in our offense, so we can get a better gauge of Mariota and see if those excuses have much substance.

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