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Let's discuss solutions to immigration

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2 minutes ago, patsplat said:

🙄  The 14th Amendment is 100% about civil rights for former slaves.

Thus why it no longer fits modern America and should be amended...

Edited by Starkiller

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Just now, Starkiller said:

Thus why it no longer fits modern America and should be amended...

Don't even try to argue there's no legacy of ugly racial discrimination including electing outright racists to office.  It's more important than ever, and I think you should examine why you are dismissive of these facts.

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If not for the 14th Amendment, every Southern state could and would pass a Muslim ban, outlaw Mass in Spanish, and things would be much worse than they currently are.

 

It's the 14th Amendment that made the Bill of Rights apply to all citizens, and also provided a simple definition of citizenship to prevent abuse.

 

Don't.

 

Fuck.

 

With.

 

It.

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8 minutes ago, patsplat said:

Don't even try to argue there's no legacy of ugly racial discrimination including electing outright racists to office.  It's more important than ever, and I think you should examine why you are dismissive of these facts.

None of this has anything to do with my suggested amendment...

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Just now, Starkiller said:

None of this has anything to do with my suggested amendment...

Your suggested amendment would be used in a racist manner to punish poor people who cannot successfully document their parents citizenship.  No doubt.

 

People would still overstay tourist visas when given a choice between death and undocumented living.  Those people will have kids.  And this amendment would justify the abuse of those populations, just like Europe's citizenship rules are used to keep poor immigrant communities poor.

 

America is better than Europe, and this is why.

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17 minutes ago, patsplat said:

Your suggested amendment would be used in a racist manner to punish poor people who cannot successfully document their parents citizenship.  No doubt.

 

People would still overstay tourist visas when given a choice between death and undocumented living.  Those people will have kids.  And this amendment would justify the abuse of those populations, just like Europe's citizenship rules are used to keep poor immigrant communities poor.

 

America is better than Europe, and this is why.

I find this argument to be ridiculous.

 

People will continue to overstay their visas or cross the border illegally but that doesn’t mean their kids should automatically be granted automatic citizenship. And changing that removes some of the motivation to be here illegally. 

Edited by Starkiller

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2 minutes ago, Starkiller said:

I find this argument to be ridiculous.

 

People will continue to overstay their visas or cross the border illegally but that doesn’t mean their kids should automatically be granted automatic citizenship. And changing that removes some of the motivation to be here illegally. 

Trafficking happens.

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3 minutes ago, Starkiller said:

I find this argument to be ridiculous.

 

People will continue to overstay their visas or cross the border illegally but that doesn’t mean their kids should automatically be granted automatic citizenship. And changing that removes some of the motivation to be here illegally. 

What I find ridiculous is the notion that.. okay, people are gonna over stay their visas, so let's change the definition of citizenship so we can punish kids.

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It's a telling admission - this is gonna do nothing about immigration, so let's take away the kids rights.

 

Man fuck that first world BS.  Let's emulate Italy or Spain or Greece, heard their economies are doing great.

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4 minutes ago, patsplat said:

What I find ridiculous is the notion that.. okay, people are gonna over stay their visas, so let's change the definition of citizenship so we can punish kids.

No one is punishing their kids. They just don’t need to be automatically granted citizenship at birth. 

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2 minutes ago, patsplat said:

It's a telling admission - this is gonna do nothing about immigration, so let's take away the kids rights.

 

Man fuck that first world BS.  Let's emulate Italy or Spain or Greece, heard their economies are doing great.

Of course it will do something about illegal immigration. One of the reasons people come here illegally is so their kids will become a US citizen at birth. Remove that incentive and it will lower illegal immigration. 

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Not a fan of touching the 14th amendment because of the right wing views on race and religious minority’s.  I know this is akin to the slippery slope argument and “muh constitution” argument conservatives through out whenever you suggest fixing any problems.  But we have a president that with much enthusiasm from his party tried to institute a Muslim ban, whose only coherent policy has devolved into keeping the Browns out, and has greatly empowered an agency that just sent a mentally ill man with diabetes that came to this country as a 6 month year old to Iraq.  Didn’t know the language or culture, have any family, and was practically a death sentence with his health.  I can’t even imagine what heinous shit ICE would get up to without birthright citizenship in certain administrations.

 

I think starkiller makes good points, especially in a perfect world.  It’s somewhat of a relic that’s original purpose is no longer a political reality it was meant to address like the second amendment, and absolutely garbage electoral college.  We are just about the only modern developed countries that have something like the 14th in place.  This should be discussed along with how shitty and predatorily our healthcare system, and view on guns compared to other developed nations.  I know Starkiller isn’t coming from this, but usually when I hear rumblings about the 14th it comes from largely racist reasons.

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Did not read all of the posts but I noticed there was some debate about citizenship and motivation for people to come here illegally. That is why I have changed my mind on citizenship for illegals. While I still support the basic precepts of Kennedy McCain and the dream act and similar immigration reform I am against any path to citizenship for those who cross into our country illegally. People once vetted can be granted a working or student visa that allows them to stay and could eventually work their way toward a green card but they or the kids they came here with should never be allowed to be citizens. 

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On 8/17/2019 at 12:18 PM, patsplat said:

If not for the 14th Amendment, every Southern state could and would pass a Muslim ban, outlaw Mass in Spanish, and things would be much worse than they currently are.

 

It's the 14th Amendment that made the Bill of Rights apply to all citizens, and also provided a simple definition of citizenship to prevent abuse.

 

Don't.

 

Fuck.

 

With.

 

It.

 

While I agree with your basic premise you seem to be lacking in your constitutional law. A Muslim ban or banning Spanish mass are 1st amendment issues not citizenship issues. 

 

And stop acting like Southern conservatives are the only bigots in this country. MLK called Chicago the most racist city in the country for a reason. Take away citizenship for illegals and you libtards will stop giving a shit about them in a hurry. You only like these people for their potential votes. 

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