Let's discuss solutions to immigration

[T-RAC]

14 minutes ago, begooode said:

 these Mississippi managers who created the demand market for these undocumented workers are not dealing with any consequences.

Revoke their citizenship! Will Guatemala take them?

[Starkiller]

42 minutes ago, T-RAC said:

Revoke their citizenship! Will Guatemala take them?

Send them back to the countries they came from!

[Justafan]

I think they need to allow more workers not less.  Our economy greatly depends on immigrants to perform jobs that no American wants for the wages they offer.  Many businesses oppose immigration reform because the current system allows them to exploit workers who they know are illegal.

 

I agree with @Starkiller that you have to go after the businesses.  Far easier to take away the incentives than to maintain a 3000-mile barrier with an army of troops to swoop up anyone who happened to think of bringing a ladder.  

 

I also think they desperately need to simplify the process for asylum, rethink the holding situation at the border, reform the 14th amendment, and prosecute people who come in on a traveler visa and then just stay.  While they are at it, withhold funding from cities/states who knowingly undermine federal immigration policy.  

 

Create jobs by beefing security at the border and using high tech gadgets but get the military out of there, because that's just a bad look.  Finally, I'm fine with a wall but it needs to be cost-effective and it needs to come along with serious immigration reform.  As the husband of a legal immigrant, it's outrageous what people have to go through to come to this country.  

 

Also @LongTimeFan, I appreciate the attempt here to create at least one thread where we aren't just throwing stones at one another and can at least pretend to be civil.  Hopefully, it's a trend that sticks.  

[Justafan]

On 8/9/2019 at 10:27 PM, LongTimeFan said:

Had been gone past 2 days, so back to this.

First, @JakePA_Titan, give some ideas or just dont respond. Just bitching gets nowhere in a discussion.

I think there have been some good suggestions.

 

I believe there needs to be better border security,  but that doesnt always mean a wall. 

 

I think people should have to apply for amnesty/asylum at the US consulate in their home country. Take a number and wait. If they are approved, give them a plane ticket. If they show up at our border, tell them to go apply back in their home country. No excuses. 

 

I would not be opposed to granting amnesty, not citizenship, to those here illegally and have no other crimes. 

 

I dont like the 'anchor baby' or chain migration. I like merit based immigration, but it does not have to be 100% merit based. Unskilled workers are still needed.

 

Visa overstays/work permits need to be cracked down on. We should know where these people are and they should be shipped out immediately. 

 

I think there should be a set number of immigrants allowed in per month. 

 

It would be nice if we could get more businesses to invest in the central American countries. The problem i see is the central American countries infrastructure. Just came back from Belize and Jamaica and their roads are crap. 

100% agreement on this one except I would not be in favor of amnesty and I think there are a few things we could do beyond this such as SK's idea to change the 14th amendment and go after businesses who knowingly harbor illegal immigrants and create a database.  

 

I really think this is one area where a majority of Americans from either side of the aisle can find a lot of common ground which is why it is so amazing to me that virtually nothing has changed on this issue in two decades.  

[Downtown]

Seriously though, just go after the businesses and Americans will learn very quickly who is keeping immigration reform off the table. 

 

Fixing illegal immigration is as simple as that. 

 

[Downtown]

Also, I will add that immigration is such a non-issue in reality compared to the overblown mania that both sides are trying to make it. 

 

Its a diversion wedge issue intended to motivate the impressionable and occupy the gullible. Politicians need it to stick around more than they need it “solved.”

 

 

[WG53]

On 8/15/2019 at 5:22 PM, Downtown said:

Also, I will add that immigration is such a non-issue in reality compared to the overblown mania that both sides are trying to make it. 

 

Its a diversion wedge issue intended to motivate the impressionable and occupy the gullible. Politicians need it to stick around more than they need it “solved.”

 

 

Abortion and gay marriage do the same thing, distract us from our real problems.

[patsplat]

One big disagreement with @Starkiller - don't touch the 14th Amendment.  The post Civil War amendments need to stand.  The 13th alone saying "no slavery" wasn't enough, the 14th and 15th were necessary to close loop holes intended to keep slaves in their place.

[Starkiller]

10 minutes ago, patsplat said:

One big disagreement with @Starkiller - don't touch the 14th Amendment.  The post Civil War amendments need to stand.  The 13th alone saying "no slavery" wasn't enough, the 14th and 15th were necessary to close loop holes intended to keep slaves in their place.

Do you think people should be able to come to the US illegally specifically so that their child can be born an American citizen?

[begooode]

29 minutes ago, Starkiller said:

Do you think people should be able to come to the US illegally specifically so that their child can be born an American citizen?

Iirc, the intent was to not inadvertently create a second class of citizenry born within the states (ie: those kids would have no home country). Perhaps we can find another solution, but I think that concern is valid. 

[Starkiller]

2 minutes ago, begooode said:

Iirc, the intent was to not inadvertently create a second class of citizenry born within the states (ie: those kids would have no home country). Perhaps we can find another solution, but I think that concern is valid. 

It’s not like we are talking about repealing the 14th Amendment. Just change it slightly to say that going forward automatic citizenship isn’t granted unless one of the parents is a US citizen. 

[patsplat]

1 hour ago, Starkiller said:

Do you think people should be able to come to the US illegally specifically so that their child can be born an American citizen?

 

35 minutes ago, begooode said:

Iirc, the intent was to not inadvertently create a second class of citizenry born within the states (ie: those kids would have no home country). Perhaps we can find another solution, but I think that concern is valid. 

 

30 minutes ago, Starkiller said:

It’s not like we are talking about repealing the 14th Amendment. Just change it slightly to say that going forward automatic citizenship isn’t granted unless one of the parents is a US citizen. 

Preventing slavery is worth erring on the side of caution.

 

There is both a rational economic argument that immigration is good for the economy, and a moral argument for simple citizenship requirements.

 

I don't expect everyone to agree with the former, but the later is a clear, bright, moral line in my book.

[Starkiller]

Just now, patsplat said:

 

 

Preventing slavery is worth erring on the side of caution.

 

There is both a rational economic argument that immigration is good for the economy, and a moral argument for simple citizenship requirements.

 

I don't expect everyone to agree with the former, but the later is a clear, bright, moral line in my book.

This has zero to do with slavery though. It’s strictly about citizenship.

[patsplat]

3 minutes ago, Starkiller said:

This has zero to do with slavery though. It’s strictly about citizenship.

🙄  The 14th Amendment is 100% about civil rights for former slaves.

[patsplat]

And it was a constitutional amendment so that these rights would not be arbitrarily eroded.