pat Posted August 17, 2019 Report Share Posted August 17, 2019 Just now, Starkiller said: None of this has anything to do with my suggested amendment... Your suggested amendment would be used in a racist manner to punish poor people who cannot successfully document their parents citizenship. No doubt. People would still overstay tourist visas when given a choice between death and undocumented living. Those people will have kids. And this amendment would justify the abuse of those populations, just like Europe's citizenship rules are used to keep poor immigrant communities poor. America is better than Europe, and this is why. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkiller Posted August 17, 2019 Report Share Posted August 17, 2019 (edited) 17 minutes ago, patsplat said: Your suggested amendment would be used in a racist manner to punish poor people who cannot successfully document their parents citizenship. No doubt. People would still overstay tourist visas when given a choice between death and undocumented living. Those people will have kids. And this amendment would justify the abuse of those populations, just like Europe's citizenship rules are used to keep poor immigrant communities poor. America is better than Europe, and this is why. I find this argument to be ridiculous. People will continue to overstay their visas or cross the border illegally but that doesn’t mean their kids should automatically be granted automatic citizenship. And changing that removes some of the motivation to be here illegally. Edited August 17, 2019 by Starkiller Justafan 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pat Posted August 17, 2019 Report Share Posted August 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, Starkiller said: I find this argument to be ridiculous. People will continue to overstay their visas or cross the border illegally but that doesn’t mean their kids should automatically be granted automatic citizenship. And changing that removes some of the motivation to be here illegally. Trafficking happens. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pat Posted August 17, 2019 Report Share Posted August 17, 2019 3 minutes ago, Starkiller said: I find this argument to be ridiculous. People will continue to overstay their visas or cross the border illegally but that doesn’t mean their kids should automatically be granted automatic citizenship. And changing that removes some of the motivation to be here illegally. What I find ridiculous is the notion that.. okay, people are gonna over stay their visas, so let's change the definition of citizenship so we can punish kids. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pat Posted August 17, 2019 Report Share Posted August 17, 2019 It's a telling admission - this is gonna do nothing about immigration, so let's take away the kids rights. Man fuck that first world BS. Let's emulate Italy or Spain or Greece, heard their economies are doing great. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkiller Posted August 17, 2019 Report Share Posted August 17, 2019 4 minutes ago, patsplat said: What I find ridiculous is the notion that.. okay, people are gonna over stay their visas, so let's change the definition of citizenship so we can punish kids. No one is punishing their kids. They just don’t need to be automatically granted citizenship at birth. Justafan 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkiller Posted August 17, 2019 Report Share Posted August 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, patsplat said: It's a telling admission - this is gonna do nothing about immigration, so let's take away the kids rights. Man fuck that first world BS. Let's emulate Italy or Spain or Greece, heard their economies are doing great. Of course it will do something about illegal immigration. One of the reasons people come here illegally is so their kids will become a US citizen at birth. Remove that incentive and it will lower illegal immigration. Justafan 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dollop Posted August 18, 2019 Report Share Posted August 18, 2019 Not a fan of touching the 14th amendment because of the right wing views on race and religious minority’s. I know this is akin to the slippery slope argument and “muh constitution” argument conservatives through out whenever you suggest fixing any problems. But we have a president that with much enthusiasm from his party tried to institute a Muslim ban, whose only coherent policy has devolved into keeping the Browns out, and has greatly empowered an agency that just sent a mentally ill man with diabetes that came to this country as a 6 month year old to Iraq. Didn’t know the language or culture, have any family, and was practically a death sentence with his health. I can’t even imagine what heinous shit ICE would get up to without birthright citizenship in certain administrations. I think starkiller makes good points, especially in a perfect world. It’s somewhat of a relic that’s original purpose is no longer a political reality it was meant to address like the second amendment, and absolutely garbage electoral college. We are just about the only modern developed countries that have something like the 14th in place. This should be discussed along with how shitty and predatorily our healthcare system, and view on guns compared to other developed nations. I know Starkiller isn’t coming from this, but usually when I hear rumblings about the 14th it comes from largely racist reasons. pat, and Starkiller 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pat Posted August 18, 2019 Report Share Posted August 18, 2019 The 14th Amendment isn't a relic if it's keeping Trump and Stephen Miller in check. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justafan Posted August 18, 2019 Report Share Posted August 18, 2019 I thought we were discussing solutions without the usual insults? Back on ignore you go. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justafan Posted August 18, 2019 Report Share Posted August 18, 2019 1 hour ago, JakePA_Titan said: At some point our population will become a problem. Probably before global warming is a real threat. When that time comes, will liberals choose to let the ship sink in the name of compassion, or will they turn into "racists" and have a stronger take on immigration, mainly, illegal immigration? I agree with the overpopulation take. It's the (actually) biggest problem that the next generation faces (just my opinion). I'm at odds with your stance on abortion in light of that though. It seems to be incredibly naive or anti-pragmatic to acknowledge that overpopulation is a huge problem and yet dig your heels in on abortion. I guess an interesting topic for another thread though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pat Posted August 20, 2019 Report Share Posted August 20, 2019 Under population is a more likely issue https://www.nysun.com/editorials/a-gop-default/87528/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/03/underpopulation-problem/585568/ Population decline is a challenge when industry expects constant growth. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pat Posted August 20, 2019 Report Share Posted August 20, 2019 The same fools ranting about keeping the borders secure will be soon living alone struggling to find young people to take care of themselves. https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/this-will-be-catastrophic-maine-families-face-elder-boom-worker-shortage-in-preview-of-nations-future/2019/08/14/7cecafc6-bec1-11e9-b873-63ace636af08_story.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
No1TitansFan Posted August 20, 2019 Report Share Posted August 20, 2019 4 hours ago, patsplat said: The same fools ranting about keeping the borders secure will be soon living alone struggling to find young people to take care of themselves. https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/this-will-be-catastrophic-maine-families-face-elder-boom-worker-shortage-in-preview-of-nations-future/2019/08/14/7cecafc6-bec1-11e9-b873-63ace636af08_story.html If they don't find a cure for alzheimer's/dementia, there's going to be a real crunch. It's real expensive care with very minimal medicare/medicaid coverage and it can last a long time and it takes either a full time caretaker or a lockdown facility once it progresses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pat Posted August 20, 2019 Report Share Posted August 20, 2019 2 hours ago, No1TitansFan said: If they don't find a cure for alzheimer's/dementia, there's going to be a real crunch. It's real expensive care with very minimal medicare/medicaid coverage and it can last a long time and it takes either a full time caretaker or a lockdown facility once it progresses. There isn't a cure for brain damage Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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