CaliTitan3518 Posted June 24, 2019 Report Share Posted June 24, 2019 1 hour ago, OILERMAN said: You pay QBs, pass protectors and defenders who disrupt the passing game. Everything else can be had on the cheap Hopefully by the time we have to pay Davis we will have a rookie contract at QB. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AussieTitanFan08 Posted June 24, 2019 Report Share Posted June 24, 2019 Justafan, and titanruss 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pat Posted June 24, 2019 Report Share Posted June 24, 2019 WRs are terrible value. Randy Moss's career is a perfect illustration of how meaningless having the greatest WR in the history of football really is. Corey Davis is fine, and mostly irrelevant. OILERMAN 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMoney420 Posted June 24, 2019 Report Share Posted June 24, 2019 Look at Williams with Phillip rivers.Dude exploded his 2nd season with 10 tds.Having a good qb absolutely does matter.Sayin that I think Davis is the all around better receiver hopefully Marcus and Davis have that chemistry where he tosses sum 50-50 balls and gives him more shots in the Ez. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Face Posted June 24, 2019 Report Share Posted June 24, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, patsplat said: WRs are terrible value. Randy Moss's career is a perfect illustration of how meaningless having the greatest WR in the history of football really is. Corey Davis is fine, and mostly irrelevant. You can say the same about JJ Watt. He hasn't won jack shit. What about Aaron Donald? What contribution did he make from 2014-2016? Same. Jack shit. They were the worst team in the league over 3 years until McVay hot there, found a good QB, and brought in playmakers. And Randy Moss influenced a team in ways that a Watt or Donald never could. A 38 year old Randall Cunningham, out of football for a year, spearheaded possibly the most explosive offense ever in an MVP winning campIgn in Randy's rookie year. The next year he made Jeff George a superstar. Culpepper went from one of the all time great seasons a QB has ever had in '04, a preposterous 111 rating, to a hot 72 rating the next year when Moss was traded. A 39 point difference. Moss simply made bad-average QB's great. Edited June 24, 2019 by Face Soxcat, and titanruss 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OILERMAN Posted June 24, 2019 Report Share Posted June 24, 2019 1 hour ago, Face said: You can say the same about JJ Watt. He hasn't won jack shit. What about Aaron Donald? What contribution did he make from 2014-2016? Same. Jack shit. They were the worst team in the league over 3 years until McVay hot there, found a good QB, and brought in playmakers. The difference is there is a long list of SB winning teams who didn't have much in terms of WRs. Most SB winning teams could rush the passer and disrupt the QB Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pat Posted June 24, 2019 Report Share Posted June 24, 2019 3 hours ago, Face said: You can say the same about JJ Watt. He hasn't won jack shit. What about Aaron Donald? What contribution did he make from 2014-2016? Same. Jack shit. They were the worst team in the league over 3 years until McVay hot there, found a good QB, and brought in playmakers. And Randy Moss influenced a team in ways that a Watt or Donald never could. A 38 year old Randall Cunningham, out of football for a year, spearheaded possibly the most explosive offense ever in an MVP winning campIgn in Randy's rookie year. The next year he made Jeff George a superstar. Culpepper went from one of the all time great seasons a QB has ever had in '04, a preposterous 111 rating, to a hot 72 rating the next year when Moss was traded. A 39 point difference. Moss simply made bad-average QB's great. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/200101140nyg.htm Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pat Posted June 24, 2019 Report Share Posted June 24, 2019 (edited) To expand a bit: Here's how the greatest WR in football on a stacked team ends a playoff run: 41-0 loss https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/200101140nyg.htm 17-14 loss https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/200802030nwe.htm Maybe the lesson here is don't play the NY Giants. But seriously. These aren't random years from Moss, these are his greatest, most dominant seasons. And Moss wasn't just the best WR of those particular years... he's arguably the greatest WR of all time. But once the playoffs came, good teams were able to shut down not only his game, but the whole offense as well. Edited June 24, 2019 by patsplat Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Face Posted June 24, 2019 Report Share Posted June 24, 2019 4 hours ago, OILERMAN said: The difference is there is a long list of SB winning teams who didn't have much in terms of WRs. Most SB winning teams could rush the passer and disrupt the QB Sure, I'd agree with that for the most part. But Randy Moss is a bad example to use in an argument against the merit of WR's. And at the end of the day the only position that can singlehandedly transform a team is QB. Any other position drafted is just a cog in the wheel. No matter how dominant a LT or pass rusher is, or whatever position, it largely doesn't matter unless there's a QB & enough suitable talent in place. So PatsPlat argument of Moss's teams failing in the playoffs do him no good because I can turnaround & point out a million examples of defensive players on bad teams. Deion was the greatest man corner ever & I don't think his team ever won a playoff game until he left Atl for the Niners & then Dallas. Reggie White is the best example. I'd say he's the most dominant defender ever, maybe prime Watt was as good, that's it. He was on a defense with Jerone Brown, Seth Joyner, Eric Allen, Andre Waters, etc. I believe he only won a single playoff game in Philly, he only won big with Favre in GB. So Plat pointing out WR's who didn't win is pointless, I can do the same with the all time best defensive players. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Face Posted June 24, 2019 Report Share Posted June 24, 2019 I do agree, @OILERMAN, that the problem with drafting receivers is their dependency on the QB. A stud tackle or edge rusher is going to dominate no matter what. And if the QB is truly great he can make a lot of receivers look good. That said, I think when you put together a special QB with a special WR, that's when the magic happens. OILERMAN, and pat 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenIsLegend Posted June 24, 2019 Report Share Posted June 24, 2019 1 hour ago, Soxcat said: Well for starters you have to get to the playoffs to begin with and certainly a great WR helps you do that. Secondly, using a small sample of playoff games, which often come against the better defenses, justifies nothing. Oman started this off by basically saying something extremely stupid. He said Davis wasn't worth it because one of the only games he was good was against NE where he dominated Gilmour. Gilmour was the top ranked CB by PFF last year. Think this through. Davis dominated one of the best CBs in the entire league. That simply states that Davis is the real deal and if we can put two other quality targets out there we basically can beat most defenses. Yea, that kind of guy is worth his draft spot. I don’t think you think things through before you post them. You are pretty consistent in your frustration with the QB situation, yet you think saying Davis isn’t worth the big payday because of our inconsistency in the passing game and the minimal impact on W/L? CD is very talented, but if there is inconsistency in the passing game, he isn’t worth the big money he will command on a run-centric team. He would be worth it in a more effective/efficient passing offense. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Face Posted June 24, 2019 Popular Post Report Share Posted June 24, 2019 I don’t want to get off topic here arguing about the value of WR’s vs defensive players, back to Corey Davis. I love Corey Davis. The 1st catch I saw him make on Opening Day 2017 I told myself he was a true Alpha, #1 X WR. His body language screamed it, the way he went up & ripped the pass down as well as his swagger after the catch, he wanted to be thrown a 1000 more passes that game. Well it hasn’t gone quite as planned since. He certainly had a good year last year & I’m patient because of the hammy his rookie year, it’s obviously been troublesome. That said, it’s time for a breakout year. Enough with the hammy. If he’s still sitting out practices with the hammy this year I’m gonna lose my mind. And he’s a bit immature to. Like the play against SD on a critical 3rd down....he’s in the slot against Casey Haywood, a great player, and he runs a short out & cut so hard Haywood almost fell, that’s how talented he is. But then what does he do? He slows up so he can look good making a one hand catch....and drops it. We very well win the SD game if he doesn’t pull that shit because he had miles of open field in front of him. And enough with this nonsense of blaming Mariota for everybody’s shortcomings. Rishard Matthews & Delanie Walker never had problems putting up numbers with Mariota throwing them the ball. Even Eric Decker, who couldn’t make a team last year, caught about 60% of his passes. What’d Anthony Firkser, who nobody had ever heard of, catch last year? I think he literally caught every pass Marcus threw to him, correct? Or maybe 1 or 2 were incomplete? Davis has to convert a lot more then the 52% or whatever it was that he did last year. Marcus certainly needs to improve but it’s laughable to put that all on him. enigma, No1TitansFan, IsntLifeFunny, and 2 others 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Somedude Posted June 24, 2019 Report Share Posted June 24, 2019 On 6/23/2019 at 8:51 AM, No1TitansFan said: The irony of this. This thread is why you say no to drugs. A hophead made this topic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NashvilleNinja Posted June 25, 2019 Report Share Posted June 25, 2019 On 6/23/2019 at 7:22 AM, OILERMAN said: I think Davis is a stud and likely a top 5-10 WR in the entire NFL. But this is the problem with WRs, drafting them high and paying them big money. They are reliant on the QB and system to produce. Has Davis made a big impact his 1st two seasons in terms of the team winning? I'd say not really. He's going into year 3 and he'll count 7 mill against the cap. 13 of his 16 games last year he produced less than 62 yards, 8 games less than 50. He tore up the Eagles but their secondary was in shambles and I'd argue many decent WRs would have done the same. He had a large role in beating NE because they decided to single him with Gilmore and he killed him. I'm not spending a 5th pick on this and I'm sure not giving him a huge contract in a few years. They have to decide whether to give him the 5th year option next off season and I'd be against that too but I'd guarantee they will. I don't think there's anything wrong with investing big money in a receiver if he's earned it. But I also see the wisdom in investing in the position through the draft. I think we should take the tact of drafting a receiver in one of the first three rounds every other year or every 3rd year just to keep the position replenished. That way maybe we keep our bases covered if our guys price themselves out of our price range. If Davis did price himself out of our range, hopefully AJ Brown takes over for him. Number9 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pat Posted June 25, 2019 Report Share Posted June 25, 2019 Just look at who was picked after Davis if you wanna get depressed. Jamal Adams, Patrick Mahomes, Marshon Lattimore, Deshaun Watson. Hindsight is 20/20 but ouch. Franchise QBs and great defenders. DCTitan, and Bongo59 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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