Titans 2019 OTAs

[BudsOilers]

Good god.  Wilson was 3rd in Passer Rating, 3rd in TD passes, 2nd in TD%, 6th in lowest INT%, 8th in YPA, 3rd in AY/A.  The epitome of efficiency.  7th in explosive pass plays.  They were 7th in Points/Game. 

 

Yards and Attempts are so overrated by fans who focus on fantasy football.  The 3 of the top 4 teams in pass attempts last year didn't make the playoffs (TB, PIT, and ATL). 

 

As pointed out, Seattle just made him the highest paid player.  They play the style they do because it's complementary football.  They want to dictate the pace of the game and protect their defense from being on the field too long.  That defense was solid but nowhere near what it was in their SB year but even then they played that way.  Their offense is based on running it, play action explosive plays, and Wilson making magic if the original play breaks down. 

 

Wilson is a proven Pro Bowl, top tier QB and they rely on his elite efficiency.

 

Contrast that with our guy .......

 

22nd in Passer Rating, 30th in TD passes, 27th in TD%, 18th in INT%, 14th in YPA, 21st in AY/A.  The Titans were 25th in explosive pass plays.  They were 27th in Points/Game. 

 

 

[Face]

Jesus guys I think the Mariota criticism is way too harsh but to use Russell Wilson as some kind of argument is laughable. The dude was utterly dominant last year.

[big2033]

1 hour ago, oldschool said:

This is such a flawed argument. Because Wilson excels in a run first offense doesnt mean all QBs who don't suck. Talk about binary thinking....

Mariota hasn't excelled in a wide open offense either.

 

Whisenhunt tried it and Mariota took too many hits.

 

I don't know why you're trying to "trap" very obvious logic.

 

There's a reason for the conservative offense and this is what you guys can't seem to understand.

 

In 2018 when we tried to open things up ... Mariota took hits too. So we regressed things to run-first even more.

 

Regardless, the good ones adapt no matter the situation.

Edited May 27, 2019 by big2033

[BudsOilers]

19 hours ago, big2033 said:

That's part of the issue. Our expectations our pretty low when it comes to franchise QBs.

 

Titans fans are easy to fall in love and easy to defend.

 

There were legit a ton of people here and on Twitter that couldn't understand why we needed to draft a QB when we had Mettenberger. "He just needs help!" They would say.

It's laughable and sad at the same time.  VY had his nut swingers and then tons were in on Locker, then Mettenberger, and now Mariota.  In fairness, Mariota is the best of that bunch.  Still, you don't pick a guy #2 overall to be inconsistent, injury prone, and be hovering around .500. 

 

Top 5 QB's are drafted to become stars and contend for/win championships.  That's the expectation.   I'm pessimistic that he'll explode this year mainly because he's inconsistent as a passer - footwork, accuracy, decision making.  He's been that way since his rookie year.  Very hot and cold.

 

Good Mariota is a keeper.  He's had 26 games (45%) where he's a Russell Wilson caliber player in terms of efficiency - 109.6 Passer Rating, 8.2 YPA, 63 TD (7.6%), 14 INT (2.4%), team averages 27.3 PPG.  The # of games in this group by year:  2015 (6), 2016 (10), 2017 (5), 2018 (5).

 

Bad Mariota is a bust.  32 games (55%) where he's putting up bottom of the league efficiency - 69.7 Passer Rating, 6.7 YPA, 10 TD (1.2%), 29 INT (3.4%), team averages 16.3 PPG.  The # of games in this group by year:  2015 (6), 2016 (5), 2017 (12), 2018 (9).

 

Efficiency aside, then there are the unforced sacks and lost plays because he doesn't pull the trigger on plays that are there. 

 

There's no doubt in my mind that the coaching regimes have had difficulty game planning and calling a game when you don't know what you are going to get. 

 

Edited May 27, 2019 by BudAdams

[IowaOiler]

Obviously, the coaching carousel hasn't helped Mariota, while Wilson has had the same HC and offensive philosophy for his entire career.  That said, this is the hand Mariota has been dealt, and he has to overcome it.  If the Wilson and Mariota situations were reversed, who knows how either ends up, especially considering Mariota's injuries, but I definately don't think Wilson would be going to Pro Bowls.

 

That said, Wilson may be tearing it up without throwing many passes, but he also hasn't won many playoff games since he lost that dominate rushing game.  I think they are both leaders, however, and quality human beings, and I would rather be a 'homer' for a quality person than hoping for his failure in the hopes people will stop remembering all the times I was wrong.

Edited May 27, 2019 by IowaOiler

[BudsOilers]

4 minutes ago, IowaOiler said:

Obviously, the coaching carousel hasn't helped Mariota, while Wilson has had the same HC and offensive philosophy for his entire career.  That said, this is the hand Mariota has been dealt, and he has to overcome it.  If the Wilson and Mariota situations were reversed, who knows how either ends up, especially considering Mariota's injuries, but I definately don't think Wilson would be going to Pro Bowls.

 

That said, Wilson may be tearing it up without throwing many passes, but he also hasn't won many playoff games since he lost that dominate rushing game.  I think they are both leaders, however, and quality human beings, and I would rather be a 'homer' for a quality person than hoping for his failure in the hopes people will stop remembering all the times I was wrong.

Good god.  The old Archie Manning/Bradshaw hypothetical argument. 

 

If Wilson was here, he'd be great.  If Mariota was there, behind that line, he'd likely be in a wheel chair.

 

As for that dominant run game, check out Lynch's career with and without Wilson.   Part of Seattle's run game success was the RPO element Wilson brought along with him making teams pay for stacking the box by leading the league in explosive pass plays.

 

 

[headhunter]

Youre a moron if you dont think Russel is elite

[rns90]

44 minutes ago, BudAdams said:

It's laughable and sad at the same time.  VY had his nut swingers and then tons were in on Locker, then Mettenberger, and now Mariota.  In fairness, Mariota is the best of that bunch.  Still, you don't pick a guy #2 overall to be inconsistent, injury prone, and be hovering around .500. 

 

Top 5 QB's are drafted to become stars and contend for/win championships.  That's the expectation.   I'm pessimistic that he'll explode this year mainly because he's inconsistent as a passer - footwork, accuracy, decision making.  He's been that way since his rookie year.  Very hot and cold.

 

Good Mariota is a keeper.  He's had 26 games (45%) where he's a Russell Wilson caliber player in terms of efficiency - 109.6 Passer Rating, 8.2 YPA, 63 TD (7.6%), 14 INT (2.4%), team averages 27.3 PPG.  The # of games in this group by year:  2015 (6), 2016 (10), 2017 (5), 2018 (5).

 

Bad Mariota is a bust.  32 games (55%) where he's putting up bottom of the league efficiency - 69.7 Passer Rating, 6.7 YPA, 10 TD (1.2%), 29 INT (3.4%), team averages 16.3 PPG.  The # of games in this group by year:  2015 (6), 2016 (5), 2017 (12), 2018 (9).

 

Efficiency aside, then there are the unforced sacks and lost plays because he doesn't pull the trigger on plays that are there. 

 

There's no doubt in my mind that the coaching regimes have had difficulty game planning and calling a game when you don't know what you are going to get. 

 

Disturbing that the number of "bad" games has risen to 21 over the last two years.  I would hope that the OL changes and the WR additions would help him but who knows at this point.

[IowaOiler]

26 minutes ago, BudAdams said:

Good god.  The old Archie Manning/Bradshaw hypothetical argument. 

 

If Wilson was here, he'd be great.  If Mariota was there, behind that line, he'd likely be in a wheel chair.

 

As for that dominant run game, check out Lynch's career with and without Wilson.   Part of Seattle's run game success was the RPO element Wilson brought along with him making teams pay for stacking the box by leading the league in explosive pass plays.

 

 

Just because it's hypothetical, doesn't mean it lacks merit.  If Wilson was brought in under Whisenhunt, who knows how things would be different for his career, and the same for Mariota under Carroll.  Hell, even the difference in the competition within their division and conference are significantly different.  

 

I'm not saying that Wilson wouldn't still be good, but Pro Bowl level and SB champion?  No way.  

 

How successful has that offense been in the playoffs since Lynch left?

[BudsOilers]

Just now, IowaOiler said:

Just because it's hypothetical, doesn't mean it lacks merit.  If Wilson was brought in under Whisenhunt, who knows how things would be different for his career, and the same for Mariota under Carroll.  Hell, even the difference in the competition within their division and conference are significantly different.  

 

I'm not saying that Wilson wouldn't still be good, but Pro Bowl level and SB champion?  No way.  

 

How successful has that offense been in the playoffs since Lynch left?

It lacks merit because it's entirely speculative.  If I had to do so, I'd say Wilson is a top tier QB with the Titans.  Based on what I've seen, Mariota would not survive in Seattle's offense.  He'd be picking pineapples back home by now.

 

Playoff wise, I think they are 1-2 post Lynch but they were 1-1 in 2012 with Lynch and 1-1 in 2015 with Lynch.  The stone cold reality is that the Seahawks made the SB when they had home field advantage.  They've never made a SB in their history without it.

[OILERMAN]

Wilson has a new OC this past season, a bad one according to popular opinion, guess what, Wilson still excelled 

 

 

[TerryBoats]

Wilson's best season came with one of the worst O lines in the league and Lynch running for 400 yards.  Mariota could be surrounded by 10 All Pros and he'd still be worse

[freakingeek]

On 5/25/2019 at 6:10 AM, Nash said:

It's an inconvenient truth that Mariotta was coming off the broken leg going into the 17 season..  his mechanics were certainly flawed by this, as he looked like he could not use his legs to power his throws.. last season LeFleur worked to widen his stance and get him to throw in a more consistent way... that's 2 seasons with uncomfortable mechanics.. soon we will see whether the corrections matter or not.. i'll be looking at his form whenever video is available 

Thanks for the "voice of reason" type post. Its not a black and white world as some think.

[IowaOiler]

1 hour ago, BudAdams said:

It lacks merit because it's entirely speculative.  If I had to do so, I'd say Wilson is a top tier QB with the Titans.  Based on what I've seen, Mariota would not survive in Seattle's offense.  He'd be picking pineapples back home by now.

 

Playoff wise, I think they are 1-2 post Lynch but they were 1-1 in 2012 with Lynch and 1-1 in 2015 with Lynch.  The stone cold reality is that the Seahawks made the SB when they had home field advantage.  They've never made a SB in their history without it.

It's not speculation that Whisenhunt and Carroll ran completely different offenses, and it's not speculation that the Seahawk team was significantly more talented at every position than the team Mariota was surrounded by when he entered the league...those are facts.  

 

If I were saying that the Seahawks may have two SB trophies if they had handed the ball to Lynch rather than let Wilson throw it at the goalie, that would be entirely speculative...but even that has merit.

 

I guess we'll just agree to disagree, but it's naive to think that a player would be the same player regardless of where he's drafted.  

[big2033]

2 hours ago, IowaOiler said:

Obviously, the coaching carousel hasn't helped Mariota, while Wilson has had the same HC and offensive philosophy for his entire career.  That said, this is the hand Mariota has been dealt, and he has to overcome it.  If the Wilson and Mariota situations were reversed, who knows how either ends up, especially considering Mariota's injuries, but I definately don't think Wilson would be going to Pro Bowls.

 

That said, Wilson may be tearing it up without throwing many passes, but he also hasn't won many playoff games since he lost that dominate rushing game.  I think they are both leaders, however, and quality human beings, and I would rather be a 'homer' for a quality person than hoping for his failure in the hopes people will stop remembering all the times I was wrong.

Wilson would dominate. No question.

 

The Seahawks haven't even spent a 2nd rounder on receiver before this year.

 

They barely even helped him, he helped himself. Tyler Lockett was the highest pick in the third round and he has never cracked 1,000 yards.

 

Doug Baldwin is an undrafted possession receiver and solid at best. Has two-thousand yards seasons over an eight year career. 

 

Be optimistic the light goes on for Mariota. But don't compare the two ... it's not even close right now.

 

There's waaaay more to prove Wilson would be above average wherever he went.  Technically he's had less "help" than Mariota.

 

 

Edited May 27, 2019 by big2033