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Fight Club...? Share your thoughts, post cool clips!

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GLinks   

I thought we could take this discussion “outside” to carry on the derail from the Jeffrey Simmons thread.

 

The response I was writing and lost in summary:

 

I think I misrepresented my background a bit. Let me start over. Dad got into MA thanks to granddad, who learned judo, jiu jitsu and aikido from a sensei on Okinawa during WWII. He taught these to my Dad and uncle. My father then started learning Kung fu from a guy who was fluent in 5 disciplines (belted, nationally ranked, etc.). 

 

By the time my Dad started his own school, it was labeled Kung fun to get people in the door. Back then, you had to pick one to be taken seriously. But once inside, you’re learning everything as you learn “kung fu.” 

 

I have fought people I would describe as MMA disciples probably for the past 20 years or so. I am extremely comfortable on my back, holding guard, etc. Sometimes I like to lay on the floor with a leg crossed and hands behind my head and say, Ok, come get me.

 

I just laugh at the notion that discipline A beats B. It’s not a science. It’s art meets science. A decent MMA guy is not going to beat Tyson in his prime because he goes for a takedown.

 

Yeah, I get nostalgic over Bruce. But just wanted to clear up, I’m whatever I need to be moment to moment in a fight, and my intention is to put an opponent down as fast and suddenly as possible with as much force as is required. I’m not married to doing it a certain way. Stand up or get down does not matter.

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GLinks   

Titanruss said:

 

“Havent watched the video yet but i will during my lunch here in a sec.. 

 

 

 

This is really wierd to say ..... but I think Bruce lee would probably lose because of lack of live-fighting experience. 

 

There's conflicting stories he lost to another kung fu instructor just 15 miles away from him in california. Lee claims he won in 3 minutes. Witnesses say it was a 25 minute even fight where Lee should have lost for disqualification. the other instructor tripped or ended up on the ground and lee jumped on top - which was outside the rules of the fight. Thats just one guy very close by. You dont think there were 20x that back home where the study originated? regardless of the outcome, it was a big enough deal to Lee that he started in-depth studying how to improve his line of study. 

 

But other than that fight, a fight with an extra during filming and a supposed kung fu tournament from high school (which he easily won)... theres pretty much zero record of actual fights and live sparring. theres no tape. theres only even rumors of the last two mentioned. 

 

Professional fighters fight that much in a month. 

 

His quickness and balance and skill is pretty much universally lauded... but as Mike Tyson once said "Everybody has a plan until you get punched in the mouth" “

 

 

Quickness balance and skill. Speed, grace and technique equal power. And everyone should get hit in the mouth because you can’t crumple if that happens. But Lee was ultimately known for power in a very unlikely package. And Ip Man was that way, too.

 

The Jack Wong fight it sounds like. Well, the history of accounts of that fight are wild, but I keep it in context:  3 minutes, 25 minutes, doesn’t matter, the fight was an intense sparring session. Not everyone has their best day, there’s nothing wrong being in a tie unless it’s football. But unless you go underground to fight unseen and without rules, you have to be holding back to some degree — if you’re any good. but also, outside of classes, you and a partner spar with no one around.

 

No, he had tons of live-fighting experience, and the way this was showcased was through demonstrations, sparring sessions and challenges. So you could be seen by schools, officials,reporters, announcers, the people. And he fought lots and lots of other instructors and prize winning fighters. Don’t think Lee NEVER got upended or lost advantage or wasn’t in a moment where he knew he was had. He was very cocky, and most of it rightfully so, but there to me were clear times he wouldn’t be at his best. The ego, the drugs later. The too much stress overall of his constant campaigning. You cannot be on Super all the time. And that’s what he was trying to do, and it wasn’t feasible. 

 

But this dude was taken on by the best of the best pretty constantly, submitted himself to it, sought it out and Lee figured out how to disable many a professional in no time. It’s more real than myth in my long view, but evidence ultimately concludes, Nobody’s perfect.

 

Edited by GLinks

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GLinks   

I like Donnie Yen and Sammo Hung. If you want to see a big buy move well, this is worth a look. Plus, they throw some MMA stuff in there as well.

 

 

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GLinks   

Same movie. Think it’s the scene just before the one above. Baton vs knife. I like this one a crap ton.

 

 

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Justafan   

@GLinks

Not trying to avoid you or not get drawn into a discussion.  I've been at work all day.  

 

Don't want to misrepresent my background either so just to be clear, I would classify my background as an amateur and a fan more than a fighter.  I've competed in some tournaments, Army Combatives, MMA, and Taekwondo.  I've even had some success at the amateur level but nothing that would be classified as professional.  Some of the guys I trained with did and they were much, much better than I ever was.  I took Taekwondo, Hapkido and I was a pretty decent wrestler in high school.  Nothing special but I went to a small school so I did pretty good for myself.  It wasn't until the Army that I got interested in BJJ and started to train some in a gym.  I'm definitely better on the ground and I recognize that weakness which is why I would definitely try to take a striker to the ground where I feel I have an advantage against most opponents and would completely dominate any untrained opponent.  

 

I haven't really competed or heavily trained in years now though.  I lift and run far more these days.  I used to roll every day when I was on the line and had people to train with but that was at least 4-5 years ago. 

 

I have to have something to focus on so I just finished my degree and then a big army school that I had to take and now I'm running 8-10 times a week getting ready for my first Marathon that I'm going to try and run later this year.

 

It is a very interesting conversation though.  I didn't know all that about Bruce Lee's background and I've never seen most of these movie clips your showing.  Definitely, don't want to take anything away from anyone or any single style which is why I was largely staying neutral.  I was just going off the knowledge I have of single class traditional Martial Artists going up against guys with varied backgrounds and I've seen many of them lose.  I don't think I've ever seen it the other way around but I'm sure it's happened.

 

Gracie was art and his brother was even better.  We got to do some rolling with them a few years ago when they were going around to different bases.  Pretty cool experience. 

Edited by Justafan

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GLinks   

I would give you more props if I could!

 

And please I don’t want anyone to think I’m trying to draw them in here to be more braggadocios than out there. I just appreciate people sharing their perspectives and experiences, and I’m a big fan of action movies, Game of Thrones, etc.

 

I appreciate these movies because it’s something that culture worked on in ways different than we have here, and we got stuff like the Matrix, John Wick, even Kung Fu Hustle and Rumble in the Bronx, Crouching Yada, which I think were all dynamite upon release.

 

Also, I agree with a ton of your outlook. I love how you said what you did about grappling vs wrestlers or strikers only. I mean you know, a great mindset and excellent conditioning and humbleness get you a long way, lol. So no, man,  you’re on point.

 

Dad for some years worked out around 8 hours a day, no matter what, then it was 6 until I was probably 13. I’ve gone through periods where I do more conditioning then anything, running, jack ton of pushups, etc. I don’t run nearly as much anymore, so congrats on the marathon training. A hilly 5k I would say was my usual 4 or 5 times a week.

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Justafan   
9 hours ago, abenjami said:

All that matters is who has the bat.  The guy with the knife is fucked.

Only if she has a name like Lucille!  

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Justafan   
6 hours ago, headhunter said:

i dont even know what we are arguing about in this thread

No one is arguing that I can tell.  Some posters were going back and forth about Bruce Lee and traditional Kung Fu versus modern MMA fighters in another thread and it got carried over to here because it was off topic.  

 

Start talking about knife vs. bat.  That will get an argument going. 

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Justafan   
9 hours ago, abenjami said:

All that matters is who has the bat.  The guy with the knife is fucked.

Depends on the guy holding the bat and the guy holding the knife.

 

Didn't we already pretty much settle this debate?  Untrained with a bat beats untrained with a knife.  I thought that was pretty much the group consensus by the end.  

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Justafan   
9 hours ago, GLinks said:

Lol, was there a bat vs knife thread that got outta hand here a few years ago?

It went like 100 pages.  People were adamant.  Hell, knowing this place, they still are.  

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