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The Taywan Taylor Thread

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abc2330   
5 minutes ago, wiscotitansfan said:

Where do you get 14% drop rate? He had 3 drops on 56 targets

 

5 minutes ago, wiscotitansfan said:

Where do you get 14% drop rate? He had 3 drops on 56 targets

He's using arbitrary stats and comparing them to official ones in order to help his argument.

 

10 minutes ago, Mythos27 said:

Nah. Stop playing that game. It's a cop out and you know it. We're looking at a player's performance and analyzing where he needs to improve if he's going to take the next step. Vets tell young guys all the time "once you're on a team it doesn't matter where you were drafted". If Taylor continues to under-perform the Titans aren't going to let him slide because he's just a 3rd round pick. They're gonna cut his ass. You clearly like Taylor more than most which is fine and I get that it may be tough for you to hear others be hard on him but this is the same thing you do to the people that like Mariota more than most. They have to deal with the criticisms of Mariota just like you are now having to deal with criticism of Taylor. 

There is absolutely a difference.  Taylor went into the year as the #3 WR,  the #4 receiving option in all likelihood.  Everything that could have gone wrong did, and he was vaulted to a position that he was reasonably not ready for.  In spite of that, he still flash and really improved as the season went along.  He wasn't a complete disaster like you people claim.  Mariota going down every 4 games and being unavailable for the biggest game of the year was closer to a disaster

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10 minutes ago, wiscotitansfan said:

Where do you get 14% drop rate? He had 3 drops on 56 targets

In the Twitter thread the OP quotes.

Where this thread started, and what it's about.

 

 

 

Where did you get 3 drops?

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10 minutes ago, abc2330 said:

He's using arbitrary stats and comparing them to official ones in order to help his argument.

Read the references that started this thread you stupid fuck.

You don't get to pick and choose what gets gleaned from it. 

He points out SPECIFICALLY if Taylor catches every catchable pass he comes away with an 82.2% catch rate.

 

Now dumbass, show us all how many QBs are accurate 82% of the time to their deep threat guy.

We'll wait.

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Mythos27   
3 minutes ago, abc2330 said:

 

He's using arbitrary stats and comparing them to official ones in order to help his argument.

 

There is absolutely a difference.  Taylor went into the year as the #3 WR,  the #4 receiving option in all likelihood.  Everything that could have gone wrong did, and he was vaulted to a position that he was reasonably not ready for.  In spite of that, he still flash and really improved as the season went along.  He wasn't a complete disaster like you people claim.  Mariota going down every 4 games and being unavailable for the biggest game of the year was closer to a disaster

Few people are calling him a disaster. I'm more down on him than most and even I haven't said anything close to that about him. I don't even really mind too much that you're trying to provide context around Taylor (though I think he should shoulder far more blame than you think) because it's always good to provide context. What rubs me the wrong way is watching you provide all this context and jump through all these hoops for Taylor but sneer at people doing the same for Mariota as excuse making. If you want to provide context for players, then that's great, I'm a big proponent of that but picking and choosing the way you're doing comes off like you're playing favorites.

 

I still maintain that his draft status isn't a get out of criticism free card. Most of the people criticizing Taylor ARE taking into account that he wasn't a top 5 pick. The problem is that living up to a 3rd round status likely means that you still suck. We didn't draft Taylor to be a 3rd round receiver. We drafted him because we thought he could exceed that draft slot and be a difference maker. So far he's barely even living up to his draft slot and he's had a hand in that. 

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8 minutes ago, TitanDuckFan said:

In the Twitter thread the OP quotes.

Where this thread started, and what it's about.

 

 

 

Where did you get 3 drops?

https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/stats?season=2018&week=100&category=RECEIVING&opp=0&sort=11&qualified=1&sortOrder=0&page=3

 

Couldn't find any other site that has him at 7 drops

 

So if you were to do the math of 3 drops and on his 45 catchable targets, it would be a 6.66% drop rate

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nine   
34 minutes ago, wiscotitansfan said:

Where do you get 14% drop rate? He had 3 drops on 56 targets

 

I know it's been discussed before, but I'd be interested to see which three plays were counted as "drops"....because I recall several plays where very catchable balls  resulted in incompletions after hitting Taylor in the chest/face.    I assume they only counted plays that were egregious and inexcusable....well-placed throws without a defender in the area.   

 

My guesses:

  • The huge drop vs. the Chargers
  • He had a bad one in the first half of the Giants game.
  • The muffed 3rd down conversion against the Texans in week 2.

The clips in the OP show several other plays with catchable, on-target throws with a defender on him;  they would have been difficult catches to make, for sure....but these were plays NFL players are expected to make.   I assume those were credited as PDs instead of drops.

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Just now, nine said:

 

I know it's been discussed before, but I'd be interested to see which three plays were counted as "drops"....because I recall several plays where very catchable balls  resulted in incompletions after hitting Taylor in the chest/face.    I assume they only counted plays that were egregious and inexcusable....well-placed throws without a defender in the area.   

 

My guesses:

  • The huge drop vs. the Chargers
  • He had a bad one in the first half of the Giants game.
  • The muffed 3rd down conversion against the Texans in week 2.

The clips in the OP show several other plays with catchable, on-target throws with a defender on him;  I assume those were credited as PDs instead of drops.

I get that, people are being much more cavalier about his drops while not actually watching tape of any other receivers and running those numbers


They're using the lower concrete drops while comparing his fan-decided drops... He could have obviously caught more balls with better concentration or technique but it's simply a biased narrative to include any of those numbers in comparisons

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Mythos27   
1 minute ago, nine said:

 

I know it's been discussed before, but I'd be interested to see which three plays were counted as "drops"....because I recall several plays where very catchable balls  resulted in incompletions after hitting Taylor in the chest/face.    I assume they only counted plays that were egregious and inexcusable....well-placed throws without a defender in the area.   

 

My guesses:

  • The huge drop vs. the Chargers
  • He had a bad one in the first half of the Giants game.
  • The muffed 3rd down conversion against the Texans in week 2.

The clips in the OP show several other plays with catchable, on-target throws with a defender on him;  I assume those were credited as PDs instead of drops.

Yeah. I'm gonna guess that the other plays where a defender is involved or in the vicinity would be tallied under contested catch %. Taylor's rate according to player profiler is 44.4% on nine targets.

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4 minutes ago, Mythos27 said:

Yeah. I'm gonna guess that the other plays where a defender is involved or in the vicinity would be tallied under contested catch %. Taylor's rate according to player profiler is 44.4% on nine targets.

I'd assume that's the case, keep in mind though that the #10 receiver in the NFL (of the 2017 season I just saw) had a contested catch rate of 48.4%

Edited by wiscotitansfan

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nine   

I'm not familiar with PlayerProfiler.com, but the data looks interesting.

 

I don't quite understand how they compile and quantify their stats.  They're showing 45 targets for Taylor in 2018....but the guy had 56 receptions!  Pro-football-reference.com shows Taylor being targeted 84 times.....so we can only assume certain plays/situations are either omitted or not accounted for by PlayerProfiler.com

 

EDIT:   Disregard.   I'm an idiot.

 

And I plan on returning to this thread in five years  to remind everyone.

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22 minutes ago, wiscotitansfan said:

https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/stats?season=2018&week=100&category=RECEIVING&opp=0&sort=11&qualified=1&sortOrder=0&page=3

 

Couldn't find any other site that has him at 7 drops

 

So if you were to do the math of 3 drops and on his 45 catchable targets, it would be a 6.66% drop rate

We know he had more than that. 

Miami for a TD.

Philly deep ball that hit him in the facemask.

The Chargers crossing route.

The NYG off both of his hands.

One against Ramsey and the Jags, again he gets both hands on the ball.

 

I don't care if they're contested or not.  He's supposed to be an NFL receiver.  When the ball hits you in the hands or the head, you're expected to catch it.

When you have it in your hands going to the ground and it ends up incomplete you DROPPED it.

 

You guys snivel and bitch about the throws a QB is supposed to make at this level, and then give his receivers a pass on the catch.  If the QB made the throw, then the WR needs to make the catch.  Especially when he gets both hands on the ball.

 

 

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Mythos27   
4 minutes ago, nine said:

I'm not familiar with PlayerProfiler.com, but the data looks interesting.

 

I don't quite understand how they compile and quantify their stats.  They're showing 45 targets for Taylor in 2018....but the guy had 56 receptions!  Pro-football-reference.com shows Taylor being targeted 84 times.....so we can only assume certain plays/situations are either omitted or not accounted for by PlayerProfiler.com

Yeah, tbh not knowing how a lot of these individual stats are compiled makes me a little wary. People give pff a hard time but their methodology is well known. 

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21 minutes ago, nine said:

I'm not familiar with PlayerProfiler.com, but the data looks interesting.

 

I don't quite understand how they compile and quantify their stats.  They're showing 45 targets for Taylor in 2018....but the guy had 56 receptions!  Pro-football-reference.com shows Taylor being targeted 84 times.....so we can only assume certain plays/situations are either omitted or not accounted for by PlayerProfiler.com

What are you talking about? Do you not realize that stats are broken up by year?

 

 

image.png.cc0d188d055bf9ae81d7156947848ff9.png

 

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