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The Taywan Taylor Thread

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abc2330   
3 hours ago, NashvilleNinja said:

Brown, Isabella, etc. If we do draft someone I just hope it's someone with speed to burn. Taylor has speed, but not the kind that strikes fear.

  Taylor received the 3rd most cushion of all WRs in the league.  So quite the opposite.

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It’s plenty fair to say that TT wasn’t very good but showed good potential his first two years.  Tons of mental errors and drops hurt him. If he gets those fixed he could be a very solid player.... 

 

none of what he does in year 3 and going forward will have any bearing on how flawed he was his first two years.. but if he does develop, people will try and use it as an excuse to hate on the QB for TTs first two years. 

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abc2330   
38 minutes ago, titanruss said:

It’s plenty fair to say that TT wasn’t very good but showed good potential his first two years.  Tons of mental errors and drops hurt him. If he gets those fixed he could be a very solid player.... 

 

none of what he does in year 3 and going forward will have any bearing on how flawed he was his first two years.. but if he does develop, people will try and use it as an excuse to hate on the QB for TTs first two years. 

And that's not a valid criticism?   You can see several plays here where the QB couldn't get the ball to him.  Per Mike Herndon, it has happened several times.  How is a young player supposed to build any confidence or get into a rhythm if they always have to question what they are doing wrong?  The QB play needs to be much better before we can come to any sort of a conclusion on these young WRs.

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abc2330   

People are delusional when it comes to speed.  Fast receivers are drafted each year, yet how many become DeSean Jackson?  We get a guy who is actually quite good at getting open deep (as he did against two all pro CBs in these could), and we should ditch him after his second year and take a really shitty chance on another one? 

 

These guys can run fast in shorts, but can they deal with a CB pushing them around at the LOS , do they know how to gain route leverage and stack themselves on top of CBs, can they sell routes, do they have a feel for space and every other nuance of the position that is required to succeed?  Taylor can , and has the speed to do it anywhere.  That was the whole point of the Twitter thread, yet you immediate gratification mother fuckers let that go right over your head.  Speed is a dime dozen.  Deep threats are very rare.

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2 hours ago, abc2330 said:

  Taylor received the 3rd most cushion of all WRs in the league.  So quite the opposite.

When you see him run it doesnt look like hes even exerting himself to go by dbs. I dont understand how a guy who can get as wide open as he does downfield doesnt have speed defenses fear. I mean look at this shit

 

 

D3WylPPXsAEx_tC.jpeg

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1 hour ago, abc2330 said:

And that's not a valid criticism?   You can see several plays here where the QB couldn't get the ball to him.  Per Mike Herndon, it has happened several times.  How is a young player supposed to build any confidence or get into a rhythm if they always have to question what they are doing wrong?  The QB play needs to be much better before we can come to any sort of a conclusion on these young WRs.

No.. not when he’s dropping the ball and being out of place. His lack of production is far and away on himself more than anyone. Possibly on the mularkey staff as a rookie for refusing to play him. 

 

Plenty of QBs miss players. Mariota had a better deep accuracy than just about anyone. 

 

TT was out of place frequently and the coaches and the player himself said so

 

 

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abc2330   
1 minute ago, titanruss said:

No.. not when he’s dropping the ball and being out of place. His lack of production is far and away on himself more than anyone. Possibly on the mularkey staff as a rookie for refusing to play him. 

 

Plenty of QBs miss players. Mariota had a better deep accuracy than just about anyone. 

 

TT was out of place frequently and the coaches and the player himself said so

 

 

Those shit coaches in 17 said anything to cover their own asses and put the struggles on the offense on anything other than the lack of development of the QB.  They knew that their job was riding on that,and they threw Robinson's draft picks under the bus so they'd have an excuse.  Vrabel mentioned the need to have Taywan out there as he was injured, since he could get behind defenses, and you saw his snap count go up once he was healthy.

 

As far as deep ball accuracy-who was he throwing many of these passes to?  Taywan Taylor.  Could someone have done a better job catching it,?  Yes.  Could they have done a better job catching AND gotten as much separation deep as often as he did?  Looking around the league for how many DeSeans there are, I'd have to say it is unlikely 

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2 hours ago, abc2330 said:

And that's not a valid criticism?   You can see several plays here where the QB couldn't get the ball to him.  Per Mike Herndon, it has happened several times.  How is a young player supposed to build any confidence or get into a rhythm if they always have to question what they are doing wrong?  The QB play needs to be much better before we can come to any sort of a conclusion on these young WRs.

Give it up.

Check the numbers from a percentage standpoint.

Taylor had a 14% drop rate.

Accurate passes were 80%.

 

All QBs get flushed from the pocket.

All QBs miss on throws, and miss on deep routes.  Most more often than Marcus.

This isn't an Air Coryell offense and was never intended to be.  The deep threat plays are completely dependent on Play Action by design.  When the run game doesn't work the deep threat doesn't either because QBs don't get the time needed to let the routes develop.

 

Goff had the same problem in the SB.  Once Gurley was neutralized LAR's deep threat passing game became a non-factor, even with Cooks and Woods.

Goff's numbers,...

50% completion rate, 229 yards (198 net) , 6 YPA, 0 TDs, 1 interception and 4 sacks.  A passer rating of 58.

And Goff was healthy.

 

How many times does it need to be explained that the bulk of McVay/LaFleur's passing offense is based on timing routes and first reads, and never going back in the progression.  Go listen to Orlovsky's early/pre-season interview with the Midday 180 again.  He explains 90% of what we saw in 2018.

 

If Taylor's numbers improve in the future, it will be more on him than anyone else.

Tajae has the hands and Taylor has the speed.  The day JRob finds one guy with both attributes, at least one of those two, or both, will be gone.

 

Edited by TitanDuckFan

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Mythos27   
17 minutes ago, abc2330 said:

Those shit coaches in 17 said anything to cover their own asses and put the struggles on the offense on anything other than the lack of development of the QB.  They knew that their job was riding on that,and they threw Robinson's draft picks under the bus so they'd have an excuse.  Vrabel mentioned the need to have Taywan out there as he was injured, since he could get behind defenses, and you saw his snap count go up once he was healthy.

 

As far as deep ball accuracy-who was he throwing many of these passes to?  Taywan Taylor.  Could someone have done a better job catching it,?  Yes.  Could they have done a better job catching AND gotten as much separation deep as often as he did?  Looking around the league for how many DeSeans there are, I'd have to say it is unlikely 

On a daily basis you mock people for "making excuses" for Mariota but here you are making every excuse in the book for Taylor.

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abc2330   
17 minutes ago, TitanDuckFan said:

Give it up.

Check the numbers from a percentage standpoint.

Taylor had a 14% drop rate.

Accurate passes were 80%.

 

All QBs get flushed from the pocket.

All QBs miss on throws, and miss on deep routes.  Most more often than Marcus.

This isn't an Air Coryell offense and was never intended to be.  The deep threat plays are completely dependent on Play Action by design.  When the run game doesn't work the deep threat doesn't either because QBs don't get the time needed to let the routes develop.

 

Goff had the same problem in the SB.  Once Gurley was neutralized LAR's deep threat passing game became a non-factor, even with Cooks and Woods.

Goff's numbers,...

50% completion rate, 229 yards (198 net) , 6 YPA, 0 TDs, 1 interception and 4 sacks.  A passer rating of 58.

And Goff was healthy.

 

How many times does it need to be explained that the bulk of McVay/LaFleur's passing offense is based on timing routes and first reads, and never going back in the progression.  Go listen to Orlovsky's early/pre-season interview with the Midday 180 again.  He explains 90% of what we saw in 2018.

 

If Taylor's numbers improve in the future, it will be more on him than anyone else.

Tajae has the hands and Taylor has the speed.  The day JRob finds one guy with both attributes, at least one of those two, or both, will be gone.

 

The day we find a QB, we'll worry less about what the players around him can't do, and actually enjoy watching a modern passing offense which doesn't require a stable of elite WRs in order to be functional.

 

4 minutes ago, Mythos27 said:

On a daily basis you mock people for "making excuses" for Mariota but here you are making every excuse in the book for Taylor.

One is going into year 5 and was a #2 pick.  Another is going into year 3 and was a round 3 pick.  Big difference.

Edited by abc2330

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nine   
36 minutes ago, abc2330 said:

The day we find a QB, we'll worry less about what the players around him can't do, and actually enjoy watching a modern passing offense which doesn't require a stable of elite WRs in order to be functional.

 

One is going into year 5 and was a #2 pick.  Another is going into year 3 and was a round 3 pick.  Big difference.

 

Its absolutely fair to hold Mariota to a higher standard;  he's the single most important player and the face of the franchise.

 

But even with his struggles the past two years, Mariota is better and more consistent at QB than Taylor is at WR.  

 

Marcus obviously isn’t elite, but he’s a starting-caliber player...borderline starter at worst.   The same cannot be said for Taylor.  

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22 minutes ago, abc2330 said:

The day we find a QB, we'll worry less about what the players around him can't do, and actually enjoy watching a modern passing offense which doesn't require a stable of elite WRs in order to be functional.

A 14% drop rate is far closer to practice squad than elite. 

Good luck finding a different QB that exceeds 80% accuracy on his passes to his deep threat receiver.  That percentage is in phenom territory.

 

Taylor needs to stop body catching and improve his concentration at the catch point.  This is explained very well in the OP's twitter thread.  Stop cherry-picking.

And he needs to improve his ability to position himself while tracking the ball so he doesn't get manhandled by FSs and CBs.  Or at least learn how to draw the flag when he does get pushed around.

Edited by TitanDuckFan

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abc2330   
1 minute ago, TitanDuckFan said:

A 14% drop rate is far closer to practice squad than elite. 

He needs to stop body catching and improve his concentration at the catch point.  This is explained very well in the OP's twitter thread.  Stop cherry-picking.

And he needs to improve his ability to position himself while tracking the ball so he doesn't get manhandled by FSs and CBs.  Or at least learn how to draw the flag when he does get pushed around.

Fair points Which can be improved with experience.  Do you agree?

 

Davante Adams was a PS caliber player in his second year.  Taylor's development is right on track

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Mythos27   
1 minute ago, abc2330 said:

The day we find a QB, we'll worry less about what the players around him can't do, and actually enjoy watching a modern passing offense which doesn't require a stable of elite WRs in order to be functional.

 

One is going into year 5 and was a #2 pick.  Another is going into year 3 and was a round 3 pick.  Big difference.

Nah. Stop playing that game. It's a cop out and you know it. We're looking at a player's performance and analyzing where he needs to improve if he's going to take the next step. Vets tell young guys all the time "once you're on a team it doesn't matter where you were drafted". If Taylor continues to under-perform the Titans aren't going to let him slide because he's just a 3rd round pick. They're gonna cut his ass. You clearly like Taylor more than most which is fine and I get that it may be tough for you to hear others be hard on him but this is the same thing you do to the people that like Mariota more than most. They have to deal with the criticisms of Mariota just like you are now having to deal with criticism of Taylor. 

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10 minutes ago, TitanDuckFan said:

A 14% drop rate is far closer to practice squad than elite. 

Where do you get 14% drop rate? He had 3 drops on 56 targets

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