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Ruston Webster's Legacy on the Current Team

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tgo   

Not much Else to talk about I guess. Interesting Article - kind of coincides with what I've said. 

 

"Right now, who’s better? The top three players on the roster thanks to Webster – Lewan, Walker and Woodyard – or the top three here because of Robinson – Kevin Byard, Jayon Brown and Logan Ryan or Rodger Saffold who we’ve not seen play yet?

 

I think you have to lean to Webster’s trio."

 

"Robinson’s misses too much, but not nearly as much or as badly as Webster. Still, don’t kid yourself into thinking Webster’s fingerprints aren’t still on this roster in a significant way four years removed from the end of his tenure as the guy calling the personnel shots."

 

Firstly, I take issue with the first comment - that Robinson misses too much. I think he misses less than most GMs and misses more in free agency than the draft. 

 

He's talking about the best players in the article, which is certainly important. But more importantly is the overall body of work. Webster did acquire some of the team's current best and most important players. But the rest of the roster was totally and utterly bereft of talent and toughness. Robinson has done a far far better job with the roster as a whole, and shoring up every position each year. 

 

That said, Robinson had the benefit of building out, based on the foundation of LT, QB, pass rushers (Orakpo and Morgan, albeit average) and Delanie. 

 

There's no question who the better GM is. For a plethora of reasons. But Give ole Ruston his due, as narrow as it may be. 

Edited by tgo

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not sure you can say walker/woodyard/lewan are better. walker may be done and didnt play. lewan had a down year.. and brown is better than woodyard. byard is a top 3 safety and DH played like the best RB in the league in Dec.

 

also... see if we can get a summary on his strength of schedule article. Titans had crazy good luck in the mularkey years by playing shit teams... now these two years we face one of the hardest SOS both times.

Edited by titanruss

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15 minutes ago, tgo said:

 

Firstly, I take issue with the first comment - that Robinson misses too much. I think he misses less than most GMs and misses more in free agency than the draft. 

 

Some website should collect the opinions of "couch-GMs" for every team to create a list of "hits/misses" for GMs.  It can be an annual online meeting sometime in the offseason to look at drafts/FA with a few years distance.  Give "instant grades" to recent years that will be reevaluated later.  TGO can be the Titans rep.  

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Mythos27   

If anything it's Webster that missed too much. He did however hit on some absolute homeruns in Walker and Lewan who at their best are among the best players in the league. Had Webster been able to do the dirty work like J-Rob and find those diamonds in the rough like Byard or quality role players like Brown or even Leshaun Simms he would've been a pretty good drafter but he didn't so he wasn't IMO

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tgo   
4 minutes ago, Mythos27 said:

If anything it's Webster that missed too much. He did however hit on some absolute homeruns in Walker and Lewan who at their best are among the best players in the league. Had Webster been able to do the dirty work like J-Rob and find those diamonds in the rough like Byard or quality role players like Brown or even Leshaun Simms he would've been a pretty good drafter but he didn't so he wasn't IMO

I think basically his major flaw was a coherent strategy overall as well as a coherent vision for what he wanted in individual players (Robinson requires tough, smart, team first players). His mantra was basically just find talented players that fit the scheme of the given coach at the time. I think he didn't put enough stock into the intangibles that separate good players from players that can't reach their athletic potential due to missing ingredients like toughness or work ethic or just basic intelligence. 

 

But yeah, Robinson puts way more stock into the later rounds and undrafted FA process. 

Edited by tgo

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Thrill   
2 minutes ago, tgo said:

I think basically his major flaw was a coherent strategy overall as well as a coherent vision for what he wanted in individual players (Robinson requires tough, smart, team first players). His mantra was basically just find talented players that fit the scheme of the given coach at the time. I think he didn't put enough stock into the intangibles that separate good players from players that can't reach their athletic potential due to missing ingredients like toughness or work ethic or just basic intelligence. 

 

But yeah, Robinson puts way more stock into the later rounds and undrafted FA process. 

He also just drafted athletic projects at skill positions. Blidi-wreh-Wilson, Justin Hunter, DGB. Same thing with a lot of LB’s. When we could’ve drafted guys with less athleticism but more internal intangibles. Those were idiotic decisions, in hindsight.

 

On the other hand, he tried to draft unathletic runningbacks like Stanley and Cobb because they fit Whisenhunts/munchak’s scheme. 

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tgo   
5 minutes ago, Thrill said:

He also just drafted athletic projects at skill positions. Blidi-wreh-Wilson, Justin Hunter, DGB. Same thing with a lot of LB’s. When we could’ve drafted guys with less athleticism but more internal intangibles. Those were idiotic decisions, in hindsight.

 

On the other hand, he tried to draft unathletic runningbacks like Stanley and Cobb because they fit Whisenhunts/munchak’s scheme. 

Yep, potential over production and intangibles. I've learned over time to loathe that kind of draft philosophy. Fisher's draft philosophy was the same way because he believed he could coach up any athlete bc of his ego, which was his downfall in the end. 

 

You absolutely cannot rely on just athletic potential. It has to come with production and intangibles. 

Edited by tgo

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Thrill   
47 minutes ago, tgo said:

Yep, potential over production and intangibles. I've learned over time to loathe that kind of draft philosophy. Fisher's draft philosophy was the same way because he believed he could coach up any athlete bc of his ego, which was his downfall in the end. 

 

You absolutely cannot rely on just athletic potential. It has to come with production and intangibles. 

Yeah. It’s ridiculous too because year after year, less athletic guys who work harder outperform these gifted athletes.

 

Logan Ryan, Malcolm Butler, Brown(short) are all examples of this.

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MIKE75   
25 minutes ago, tgo said:

I still think Ruston Webster was better than Reinfeldt, as bad as he was. 

I do too the main thing that fucked Webster up is the Jake Locker pick,let that be a better another better QB and things could've been a lot different.

 

Still dont forget that Webster was the official GM from 2012 thru 2015 and 4 straight losing seasons.

 

Reinfeldt 2007-2011 was the ultimate discount bin GM Jovan Haye,Barrett Ruud,Shaun Smith, Bit seemed like every pick he made was pure shit but we still had enough warriors left that we didnt feel the ultimate affects until 2012.

 

2009 they finished 8-8 would've made the postseason at 9-7 BUT we lost a Jets game that year because of one player and that was Ryan Mouton who fumbled 2 returns both times leading to easy Jets scores and we ultimately lost a close game we shouldn't lost.

 

Its funny because 2013 we went 7-9 and lost games again because of mistakes we shouldve been 9-7 at least. One was the home game vs Indy we were winning when in the last quarter that dickhead Devon Wylie we signed off the street to replace Reynaud fumbled a return leading to what was an easy Indy score and a close loss 3 point for us. Also dont forget the Houston game we lost in OT when Locker missed a wide open Britt that wouldve won the game those two or three dumb mistakes we wouldve been 9-7 we werent bad in 2013 an didnt get real shitty until '14.

 

Anyway ultimately in 2009 and 2013 we could've had winning years and playoffs in one but due to 2 idiots who botched returns Mouton/Wylie one a rookie the other off the street we were begging for trouble. Then of course Locker overthrowing Britt for what wouldve been a game winner that most QB make that throw in their sleep.

 

 

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japan   
2 hours ago, tgo said:

Not much Else to talk about I guess. Interesting Article - kind of coincides with what I've said. 

 

"Right now, who’s better? The top three players on the roster thanks to Webster – Lewan, Walker and Woodyard – or the top three here because of Robinson – Kevin Byard, Jayon Brown and Logan Ryan or Rodger Saffold who we’ve not seen play yet?

 

I think you have to lean to Webster’s trio."

 

"Robinson’s misses too much, but not nearly as much or as badly as Webster. Still, don’t kid yourself into thinking Webster’s fingerprints aren’t still on this roster in a significant way four years removed from the end of his tenure as the guy calling the personnel shots."

 

Firstly, I take issue with the first comment - that Robinson misses too much. I think he misses less than most GMs and misses more in free agency than the draft. 

 

He's talking about the best players in the article, which is certainly important. But more importantly is the overall body of work. Webster did acquire some of the team's current best and most important players. But the rest of the roster was totally and utterly bereft of talent and toughness. Robinson has done a far far better job with the roster as a whole, and shoring up every position each year. 

 

That said, Robinson had the benefit of building out, based on the foundation of LT, QB, pass rushers (Orakpo and Morgan, albeit average) and Delanie. 

 

There's no question who the better GM is. For a plethora of reasons. But Give ole Ruston his due, as narrow as it may be. 

Silly stuff

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