Starkiller Posted March 28, 2019 Report Share Posted March 28, 2019 9 minutes ago, Titans279 said: Remember this from January 2017? I’m sure Trump’s plan will come out any day now... https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-vows-insurance-for-everybody-in-obamacare-replacement-plan/2017/01/15/5f2b1e18-db5d-11e6-ad42-f3375f271c9c_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.15efe94add26 The GOP has claimed to have had their own healthcare plan for about a decade now. They never have any plans... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titans279 Posted March 28, 2019 Report Share Posted March 28, 2019 At the same time I don’t buy into Medicare for All’s popularity which makes it stupid to run on. I think a more incremental approach would be necessary like a Medicare buy in (Medicare for America plans). But realistically none of those will pass without 60 votes and most likely the Senate will stay GOP anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctm Posted March 28, 2019 Report Share Posted March 28, 2019 17 minutes ago, Starkiller said: The GOP has claimed to have had their own healthcare plan for about a decade now. They never have any plans... That's because they can't. The only way to cover pre-existing conditions and keep the cost down is to broaden the risk pool aka the individual mandate. And btw, congressional republicans know Trump screwed up and the reason he screwed up is because he has no idea of the details of any kind of policy. It's been since 2009 when republicans started hollering repeal and replace. Still waiting on replace. Btowner, and OILERMAN 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctm Posted March 28, 2019 Report Share Posted March 28, 2019 5 minutes ago, Titans279 said: At the same time I don’t buy into Medicare for All’s popularity which makes it stupid to run on. I think a more incremental approach would be necessary like a Medicare buy in (Medicare for America plans). But realistically none of those will pass without 60 votes and most likely the Senate will stay GOP anyway. Let people buy into Medicare at age 60 with a premium. If it works out, lower the age to 55, etc. No1TitansFan 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkiller Posted March 28, 2019 Report Share Posted March 28, 2019 Republicans have been trying to kill Medicare since before it passed decades ago. Paul Ryan kept coming out with plans to eliminate it. So if anyone thinks Republicans are going to just turn around and start supporting Medicare for all, you can forget it. Hell, Dems couldn’t even get conservative Democrats in the Senate to vote to lower the age for Medicare back during the Obamacare negotiating period. So either way, I don’t think Medicare for all is going to pass through the senate filibuster. But at this point, NO PLAN is going to pass through a senate filibuster. So, the only way to change this stalemate is to either eliminate the filibuster or to overwhelmingly convince the American electorate that they want Medicare for all (or whatever other plan) in such sheer numbers that elected officials are forced to support it or get voted out of office. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanDuckFan Posted March 28, 2019 Report Share Posted March 28, 2019 2 hours ago, woolfolksunclesuncle said: People keep shouting that it's too difficult and complicated to enact, but that's total bullshit. It'd work very much like state medicaid, except for all incomes. Citizens could also have the option to purchase private insurance if they'd like. This shit isn't hard.....the REAL problem is that insurance companies are the 2nd largest lobbyist group---only behind pharmaceuticals. So, getting politicians to tell that cash stream to fuck off in favor of actually putting the average person first, is going to be nearly impossible. If people want shit to get better in all aspects of government, they'll need to rebel against lobbying. The existence of legal lobbying is the enemy to progress for average citizens. Well, I'm glad somebody gets it. woolfolksunclesuncle, and MadMax 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanDuckFan Posted March 28, 2019 Report Share Posted March 28, 2019 1 hour ago, Titans279 said: So, a beefed up Obamacare... There was nothing about obamacare that even bordered on "not for profit." It was all about profits. Insurance company profits, and how to increase them by government mandate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkiller Posted March 28, 2019 Report Share Posted March 28, 2019 1 minute ago, TitanDuckFan said: There was nothing about obamacare that even bordered on "not for profit." It was all about profits. Insurance company profits, and how to increase them by government mandate. The bill specifically limited how much insurers could profit, thanks to Al Franken. Btowner, and MadMax 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titans279 Posted March 28, 2019 Report Share Posted March 28, 2019 (edited) 17 minutes ago, TitanDuckFan said: There was nothing about obamacare that even bordered on "not for profit." It was all about profits. Insurance company profits, and how to increase them by government mandate. Germany’s system is essentially a beefed up Obamacare. The GOP called the ACA a socialist take over of 1/5 of the economy. What do you think they’ll call even more regulation? Quote Instead, the bill was paid by the Barmer GEK sickness fund, one of about 160 such nonprofit insurance collectives in the country. Every German resident must belong to a sickness fund, and in turn the funds must insure all comers. Sounds like a vaguely familiar structure! The ACA was too conservative though and they couldn’t have passed or if they’d eliminated private insurance companies as we know them. https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/04/what-american-healthcare-can-learn-from-germany/360133/ Edited March 28, 2019 by Titans279 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justafan Posted March 28, 2019 Report Share Posted March 28, 2019 4 hours ago, oldschool said: The ACA is basically built off core Republican principles. Free market with private providers... State run exchanges.... the GOP hates it because its attached to Obama. believe me the Dems wanteds a more liberal approach to it but had to settle for the Republican plan. Its too bad the GOP refuses to work on tweaks to the bill and instead is running on a plan to repeal and replace it with vaporware. The number#1 issue for the majority of Americans is healthcare and led to the Dems taking back the House in 2018 and it will be a huge factor in 2020 as well. I agree. The ACA is salvageable with the right tweaks. There's too much poison in the water though now. Btowner 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titans279 Posted March 28, 2019 Report Share Posted March 28, 2019 1 hour ago, ctm said: Let people buy into Medicare at age 60 with a premium. If it works out, lower the age to 55, etc. It would be funny if Democrats passed a policy that mostly benefited constituents who are the least likely to ever support them with their once in 10 years shot at actually passing something. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanDuckFan Posted March 28, 2019 Report Share Posted March 28, 2019 (edited) "Limited" means different things to different people apparently. 1 hour ago, Starkiller said: The bill specifically limited how much insurers could profit, thanks to Al Franken. https://www.salon.com/2016/10/28/making-a-killing-under-obamacare-the-aca-gets-the-blame-for-rising-premiums-while-insurance-companies-are-reaping-massive-profits/ Quote While Americans continue to be hammered by rising health care costs, and while congressional lawmakers (with their taxpayer-subsidized health care) do nothing to lower the cost of pharmaceuticals and medical care, one group is reaping a windfall in profit: health insurance companies and their investors. https://www.consumeraffairs.com/news/health-insurance-industry-rakes-in-billions-while-blaming-obamacare-for-losses-110116.html Quote Health insurance industry rakes in billions while blaming Obamacare for losses Major insurance companies are enjoying record profits but claim they are losing money under the Affordable Care Act https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/05/top-health-insurers-profit-surge-29-percent-to-6-billion-dollars.html Quote Aetna, Humana and Cigna all saw adjusted earnings rise more than 45 percent from the year ago quarter, despite the fact that they continue to experience losses on Obamacare individual plans. Centene and UnitedHealth Group’s adjusted profits were up roughly 25 percent from a year ago; https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/18/business/health-insurers-profit.html Quote The numbers are astonishing. The Standard & Poor’s stock index returned 135.6 percent in those seven years through Thursday, a performance that we may not see again in our lifetimes. But the managed care stocks, as a whole, have gained nearly 300 percent including dividends, according to calculations by Bespoke Investment Group. UnitedHealth, the biggest of the managed care companies, with a market capitalization that is now more than $160 billion, returned 480 percent, dividends included. An investment of $100 in the company’s stock when Obamacare was signed into law would be worth more than $580.50 today. I can go on and post a couple dozen more links if you like redundancy. But any honest assessment should prove that what you claim was supposed to happen, and what really happened are two VERY different things. Surprise? Nah not really. Edited March 28, 2019 by TitanDuckFan Justafan 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkiller Posted March 28, 2019 Report Share Posted March 28, 2019 10 minutes ago, TitanDuckFan said: "Limited" means different things to different people apparently. https://www.salon.com/2016/10/28/making-a-killing-under-obamacare-the-aca-gets-the-blame-for-rising-premiums-while-insurance-companies-are-reaping-massive-profits/ https://www.consumeraffairs.com/news/health-insurance-industry-rakes-in-billions-while-blaming-obamacare-for-losses-110116.html https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/05/top-health-insurers-profit-surge-29-percent-to-6-billion-dollars.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/18/business/health-insurers-profit.html I can go on and post a couple dozen more links if you like redundancy. But any honest assessment should prove that what you claim was supposed to happen, and what really happened are two VERY different things. Surprise? Nah not really. If your argument is that the health insurance industry should be forced to go non-profit then great... Otherwise your point is muddled at best. Obamacare was always built on top of the old for-profit system. No one has argued otherwise. And none of that changes the fact that the bill capped how much profit the insurers could make off of customers' premium payments. MadMax 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanDuckFan Posted March 28, 2019 Report Share Posted March 28, 2019 24 minutes ago, Starkiller said: If your argument is that the health insurance industry should be forced to go non-profit then great... Otherwise your point is muddled at best. Obamacare was always built on top of the old for-profit system. No one has argued otherwise. And none of that changes the fact that the bill capped how much profit the insurers could make off of customers' premium payments. It's not, and that is not what I implied in my original statement SK, so don't twist things around so you can apply your strawman to my argument. Obamacare was all about profits, and who would benefit. The insurance companies. Bigly. And it worked perfectly, obviously. Because THAT's WHAT HAPPENED. I believe the words "Profits Are Soaring" (or the equivalent) was used numerous times in every one of those articles. And furthermore, if you didn't see it coming, then you lack the ability to understand cause and effect. It was sold to the people with smoke and mirrors, and only revealed itself for what it was when one digs deeper than their claims of falling margins and lost money. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titans279 Posted March 28, 2019 Report Share Posted March 28, 2019 Your claim is that despite losing money by covering the ACA individual markets the ACA is the cause of those higher profits? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.