Legaltitan

OFFICIAL Warren for President thread

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I like Warren, and especially like that her main issue seems to be one that NOBODY is willing to address - the imbalance between consumers and corporations. And she does it in just the right way, and is very thoughtful about it. Her position (which is correct) is that if you are in favor of capitalism and free markets, then you have to regulate and monitor large corporations and keep them from using their dominance and power to crush competition and hurt consumers.

 

I think Warren will/could make a hell of a Senate Majority leader one day, or some other very powerful position.

 

While she is uniquely qualified and capable and intelligent, she is also uniquely terrible as a Presidential candidate IMO. And I think she is a very bad match for Trump. She doesn't seem able to resist the urge to take his bait. That could end up really handicapping her in a one on one with Trump. And I think Warren would have a real chance of getting Trump re-elected.

 

I love her on the sidelines, throwing bombs and getting under Trump's skin. But as she enters the realm of presidential politics, I fear it will be him dragging her down.

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I don't see the parallel.

 

And why twist what I said? I didn't say should shouldn't be president, I said I think she would make a bad candidate for President. I would love to see her as President, but it isn't going to happen for her. But I do think she could probably more effective in that role.

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Just now, MadMax said:

From what I've seen of her, she's too awkward when trying to be a human being.  I'm afraid she'd never be taken seriously, she's almost Sheldon Cooper awkward.

She is very awkward.

 

It amazes me I can type the same fucking phrase 1,000 times but people think I have something against Warren as President. I will repeat what I have also said before, it is a COMPLIMENT, really, to say she is a bad presidential candidate. She is not enough of a political whore, not enough of a showman. She's too substantive and cerebral. It just doesn't work. She'll do great in the debates, to those scoring on their official debate scorecards, but I just don't think she connects to the average person well.

 

Her "negatives," to the extent they are there, are negatives as a Presidential candidate, only. I'd much rather hang out with her than most of these guys, because I'm an awkward nerd too. Unfortunately, I am not typical of the voting public.

 

Buttigieg is a guy who is also cerebral and substantive but he can connect. I think being Mayor helps him, and having been a management consultant. Warren has been in academia and the Senate. I love academics - I'm married to a career academic. But my wife would be the first to tell you that academics are awkward as hell. And they spend their days talking to other brilliant people. In the Senate she spends all day wonking out with other wonks. That's awesome. God bless her. But that isn't a great proving ground for a public that just voted based on "Build that Wall!" and "Lock her up!"

 

I'd love to hang out with Beto too. He's just super cool and dreamy.

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And also for the record, because I can hear the incoming attacks, people that prefer Warren should definitely support and vote for Warren. Vote for who you believe in and who inspires you. If that's Warren, great. 

 

I am not lecturing, just trying to handicap and analyze. In short, I am trying to be a wonk when analyzing Warren's chances.

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3 hours ago, Legaltitan said:

I don't see the parallel.

 

And why twist what I said? I didn't say should shouldn't be president, I said I think she would make a bad candidate for President. I would love to see her as President, but it isn't going to happen for her. But I do think she could probably more effective in that role.

My point is that you can say she should just stay in the senate but she has no power there to push any of her desired policies. It’s like saying you like Bernie's policies but you think he should stay in the senate.

 

The whole point of being president is that you have some measure of power to run the country. People who like Warren or Bernie or whoever want them to be in the White House because staying in the senate keeps them from changing things.

 

As for the parallel to Roosevelt, the Republican Party bosses hated him. They wanted to bury him to keep him from doing anything. They did it by nominating him as VP because the role is powerless. Teddy was an accidental president, elevated to power only because McKinley was assassinated a few months into his 2nd term. 

 

No, Warren probably isn’t going to win. My point is saying she should just stay in the senate is not a good enough answer for her supporters.

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16 minutes ago, Starkiller said:

My point is that you can say she should just stay in the senate but she has no power there to push any of her desired policies. It’s like saying you like Bernie's policies but you think he should stay in the senate.

 

Is it purposeful, or are we just talking past each other? Because I'm not saying she should "stay in the Senate," I'm saying she makes a lousy Presidential candidate, but could still have a lot of power in the Senate.

 

How is my answer in any way directed at her supporters? I'm not telling her not to run, and not telling anyone not to vote for her.

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The parallel to Teddy Roosevelt is that they were/are trust busters.  The both want to rein in corporate power.

 

What Warren appears to be missing is Bill Clinton's I feel your pain.  Doesn't mean she doesn't have it, it just doesn't come thru.  The way formally trained debaters and law professors are trained is all logic and reasoning, not emotion. Emotion is shunned in those formats.

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I will never vote for a socialist who totally disrespects the intelligence of the electorate and has lied repeatedly about her ethnicity even after DNA tests proved she was not an Indian.

 

What is almost worse are her reasons for the lies.  She hates what this country stands for and she hates 2/3 of the people in it. 

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6 minutes ago, Legaltitan said:

Is it purposeful, or are we just talking past each other? Because I'm not saying she should "stay in the Senate," I'm saying she makes a lousy Presidential candidate, but could still have a lot of power in the Senate.

 

How is my answer in any way directed at her supporters? I'm not telling her not to run, and not telling anyone not to vote for her.

Mostly it’s about the fact that you have already made the point a few times before and still felt the need to create a new thread for it. I don’t think we are talking past each other so much as we disagree on the premise of that.

 

In general it’s more a question of do you care about policy or personality. I’m fine with the argument that the more charismatic candidate tends to win the general election and you think Warren isn’t charismatic. I don’t agree, however, that she wouldn’t beat Trump. In fact, I think her well established economic populist message is the best policy message to match Trump.

 

My fear is that the Dems go too far the other way and elect a political lightweight who has charisma because they think that’s all that matters.

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16 minutes ago, Rolltide said:

I will never vote for a socialist who totally disrespects the intelligence of the electorate and has lied repeatedly about her ethnicity even after DNA tests proved she was not an Indian.

 

What is almost worse are her reasons for the lies.  She hates what this country stands for and she hates 2/3 of the people in it. 

No one gives a shit who you would vote for. You are a self proclaimed libertarian who loves authoritarians.

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27 minutes ago, Starkiller said:

No one gives a shit who you would vote for. You are a self proclaimed libertarian who loves authoritarians.

AND you're a bitter little short bastard.

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30 minutes ago, Starkiller said:

Mostly it’s about the fact that you have already made the point a few times before and still felt the need to create a new thread for it.

No, the thread was created in reaction to someone, rightfully, pointing out that we didn't have a standalone thread for any of the female candidates. So since none of the Warren fans felt compelled to start one, I went ahead and did so. 

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In her last interview, Warren explained what she wants to break up the tech giants.  She thinks it hurts competition and business formation for the giants to control both the platform and the products for sale.  She directly said she isn't a socialist.  She said she is a capitalist who believes the markets need regulation. 

 

Although she didn't mention it directly, she was drawing a line between herself and Bernie. As in, he's a socialist, I'm a capitalist.  It's a good point since they are competing for some of the same voters, but it's probably too subtle for people who aren't listening closely. She'll end up having to be more direct about the distinction.

 

And she appears to be right.  There is a slump in business formation.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/20/business/economy/startup-business.html

Edited by ctm

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