Jump to content
AvgJoe

Ballard and the Colts

Recommended Posts

10 hours ago, Tim said:

The Colts didn’t as much get it right on Manning and Luck as get incrediblly lucky that they sucked so bad the two years they were available. Anyone in the world knew what Luck was. The biggest credit to them was for beginning the tanking process a year early to get him. 

or they tanked on purpose...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, AussieTitanFan08 said:

Just as puzzling as the Texans not fixing their OL.

2 years in a row. WTF was not paying Duane Brown, your starting left tackle.Love it! Their secondary was a problem area and it has gotten worse in FA.

Edited by Tex in a Can

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
abc2330   
16 hours ago, wiscotitansfan said:

 

 

14 hours ago, Jonboy said:

Leonard and Nelson both were 1st team All Pro. Plus he traded down and still got Nelson. 

How is that different than what Robinson did?  He fixed the OL right away, drafted 2 All Pros .  And this franchise legitimately sucked prior to him.  Indy has been a competitor for decades.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, abc2330 said:

 

How is that different than what Robinson did?  He fixed the OL right away, drafted 2 All Pros .  And this franchise legitimately sucked prior to him.  Indy has been a competitor for decades.

And people think JRob is a great GM... what’s your point? It’s almost like giving the QB proper resources matters in addition to just having a QB

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
abc2330   
43 minutes ago, wiscotitansfan said:

And people think JRob is a great GM... what’s your point? It’s almost like giving the QB proper resources matters in addition to just having a QB

The Colts invested two 1st in the OL prior to his arrival, as well as their #1 WR and Luck himself.  That's a Hell of a starting point.  Why was the previous regime garbage and Ballard knocking it out of the park?  His team won 4 games without Luck.  He's bailing him out and allowing him to sit on his hands, IMO.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, abc2330 said:

The Colts invested two 1st in the OL prior to his arrival, as well as their #1 WR and Luck himself.  That's a Hell of a starting point.  Why was the previous regime garbage and Ballard knocking it out of the park?  His team won 4 games without Luck.  He's bailing him out and allowing him to sit on his hands, IMO.

So you’re saying that us investing in Hutch and Warmack was a great starting point and then drafting Lewan wasn’t explicitly good drafting compared to prior investments to the Line?

 

youre trying wayyyyyy too hard to diminish Ballard’s success had a lot to do with the massive amount of investment he’s put into the line

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
abc2330   
1 hour ago, wiscotitansfan said:

So you’re saying that us investing in Hutch and Warmack was a great starting point and then drafting Lewan wasn’t explicitly good drafting compared to prior investments to the Line?

 

youre trying wayyyyyy too hard to diminish Ballard’s success had a lot to do with the massive amount of investment he’s put into the line

I'm really not trying that hard.  My point is, as we are about to find out in GB, it's extremely hard to screw up a team when your QB is that good, and that it takes a complete dumbass to do so.  And any addition on offense, like Ebron, will look that much better when they are being elevated by an elite QB.  Luck took way more hits yet way fewer sacks than Mariota.  I just don't see what Ballard's done translating into similar success for a team with a QB like Mariota.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, abc2330 said:

I'm really not trying that hard.  My point is, as we are about to find out in GB, it's extremely hard to screw up a team when your QB is that good, and that it takes a complete dumbass to do so.  And any addition on offense, like Ebron, will look that much better when they are being elevated by an elite QB.  Luck took way more hits yet way fewer sacks than Mariota.  I just don't see what Ballard's done translating into similar success for a team with a QB like Mariota.  

Who's to say he would make the exact same moves? You're trying to move the goalpost to say that everything he has done only works because he has a QB... Maybe everything he has done is because he has a QB.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
abc2330   
9 minutes ago, wiscotitansfan said:

Who's to say he would make the exact same moves? You're trying to move the goalpost to say that everything he has done only works because he has a QB... Maybe everything he has done is because he has a QB.

Then who deserves the credit?  Him or the QB?  Judging by his success without Luck, as well as Luck's success prior to his tenure, I'd say the QB deserves a lot of it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, abc2330 said:

Then who deserves the credit?  Him or the QB?  Judging by his success without Luck, as well as Luck's success prior to his tenure, I'd say the QB deserves a lot of it.

Or they both deserve credit. Again, you’re trying wayyyy too hard here

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mythos27   
20 hours ago, abc2330 said:

Then who deserves the credit?  Him or the QB?  Judging by his success without Luck, as well as Luck's success prior to his tenure, I'd say the QB deserves a lot of it.

He deserves the credit over the QB because with him, the QB nearly got his ass knocked out of the league. Without Ballard, that line would've continued to be a sieve, Luck would likely have ended up on IR, and oh yeah they wouldn't have the rookie DPOY on a defense that badly needed his playmaking ability. I don't know why you're so invested in making it look like Ballard hasn't made Indy much better because it's pretty obvious to everyone that he has. Before the season the Colts were considered the worst roster in the NFL, less than a year later they made the playoffs and are the favorites to win their division next season. I really don't see what your beef is here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
abc2330   
21 hours ago, wiscotitansfan said:
42 minutes ago, Mythos27 said:

He deserves the credit over the QB because with him, the QB nearly got his ass knocked out of the league. Without Ballard, that line would've continued to be a sieve, Luck would likely have ended up on IR, and oh yeah they wouldn't have the rookie DPOY on a defense that badly needed his playmaking ability. I don't know why you're so invested in making it look like Ballard hasn't made Indy much better because it's pretty obvious to everyone that he has. Before the season the Colts were considered the worst roster in the NFL, less than a year later they made the playoffs and are the favorites to win their division next season. I really don't see what your beef is here.

 

How is that any different than other years with Luck at QB?  They are always the favorite because they have the best QB.

 

I can make the argument that the reason they were able to improve so much was because the team was so bad under him in 17, giving him high slots in the draft in which to select Nelson and the DPOY you mentioned, and giving him a coveted position in which he could trade back and acquire more picks. I'm sure Robinson would love a season where he selects in the top 5 each round and has teams blowing up his phone to trade up.  Too bad he actually fielded a competitive team.  If they didn't suck so much, no Q. Nelson, and they wouldn't have both Smith and Leonard, which is a significant difference.  His first class wasn't nearly as good.

Edited by abc2330

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mythos27   
1 minute ago, abc2330 said:

How is that any different than other years with Luck at QB?  They are always the favorite because they have the best QB.

 

I can make the argument that the reason they were able to improve so much was because the team was so bad under him in 17, giving him high slots in the draft in which to select Nelson and the DPOY you mentioned, and giving him a coveted position in which he could trade back and acquire more picks. I'm sure Robinson would love a season where he selects in the top 5 each round and has teams blowing up his phone to trade up.  Too bad he actually fielded a competitive team.

Except that even that argument doesn't work because it was still Ballard that identified and drafted these players. You talk about "can't miss" prospects as if that's really a thing. Chance Warmack was universally declared a "can't miss" OG prospect and how did that work out? Again, you're looking for ways to invalidate what the guy has done. Putting pieces the right pieces around your QB and keeping him upright is not as easy as you make it out to be and in fact the overwhelming majority of GM's fail to do so.

Discounting what a GM is able to draft simply because he has good draft picks is also laughable because the majority of even high draft picks fail to live up to expectations. !st round pick or not, you still have to know what you're doing to identify the right player. You talk about Ballard's drafting as if he was just lucky and by virtue of simply having high picks in his pocket that it would automatically result in two all-pros. This is where we end up when we make reductionist arguments. Finally, J-Rob is a really good GM that we all love so why you think it's relevant to bring him up is beyond me.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...