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9 Nines

Scheme: parents paying $75K to get others to take SAT etc. tests

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Denali   

This scheme has nothing to do with "rich people". 

 

It's about people in a position of influence that were so greedy that they were willing to commit these outrageous crimes.  Coaches that had their hands out to take bribes to pretend that these applicants were student athletes.  ACT/SAT test administrators that had their hands out to take bribes to allow for there to be test surrogates and modified tests.  People that had their hands out to take bribes to be test surrogates and/or to modify the tests themselves.

 

Those are the crooks.  Scumbags.  Without their greed and willingness to commit these crimes, nothing happens.

 

With scumbags like that in these positions of influence, it was only a matter of time before these crimes took place. 

 

The only other issue at that point was how much money people were willing to pay.  In this case, the price that these scumbags were charging became so high that only "rich people" were able to afford it.

 

And if you're really looking to blame someone else for these crimes, how about blaming the people running the places where these scumbags worked?  How could they have hired these scumbags to begin with?  How the hell do people like this get past the interview process?  And why weren't safeguards in place to prevent these things from happening?  I mean, the only thing it took to convince the college administrators that these were student athletes was some phony documents and pictures.  And what about the ACT/SAT companies?  How the fuck can they give test proctors so much power? 

 

I expect that there will be major lawsuits against the colleges (USC, UCLA, USD, Wake Forest, Georgetown, Stanford, UTA, and Yale), the ACT company (ACT, Inc.), and the SAT company (CollegeBoard). 

 

And it gets really weird with ACT, Inc. and CollegeBoard because they are non-profit companies.  Can they be sued?  Do they have any assets?  Will all colleges start getting sued if they continue to rely on these testing companies? Will Donald Trump swoop in and shut down these two testing companies like he just did with the Boeing 737 Max?

 

Edited by Denali

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Justafan   
6 hours ago, Denali said:

Your question seemed to indicate that you thought there were none.

 

And she isn't just any name.  Read the actual indictments instead of just the news reports.

She wasn't buying her kids way into college.  She was accepting bribes.  Shitty thing she did nonetheless but either you have a serious problem with reading comprehension or you deliberately tried to twist what I asked in order to shift the point.  

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Denali   
15 minutes ago, Justafan said:

She wasn't buying her kids way into college.  She was accepting bribes.  Shitty thing she did nonetheless but either you have a serious problem with reading comprehension or you deliberately tried to twist what I asked in order to shift the point.  

I am shifting the point away from the parents to the people that had their hands out accepting the bribes and the institutions that they worked for.

Edited by Denali

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Justafan   
5 hours ago, GOAT9 said:

ummm yeah if you want to make it about race then you are going to lose. Colleges actively recruit minorities and will accept them over majorities even if they have lower scores. Harvard literally got sued a few years back by Asians because they had to score some 400 points higher than blacks in order to get into Harvard. So yeah you are going to lose that argument. It is socioeconomic. Rich people getting favors over poor people. As my 1st post on this thread said people have lived with their heads in their ass if they are just now figuring out that rich people get preferences in schools.

 

No you missed that one completely. The vast majority of schools involved are in California. Stanford, USC, UCLA etc. USC in particular the school that is most vocal shoving absolute horseshit down everyone's throat all the time.

 

As far as which names are different races? Yeah theres def a few Asians in there unless whites are going by Ishen Chen now days. Lots of Hispanic and I even see what appear to be names of Middle Eastern decent? Yeah def not all whites there. 

 

So uhhh yeah the day people start addressing real issues like socioeconomic ones instead of making everything about race, the better off everyone will be. 

 

 

 

 

9

Ishen "Joey" Chen.  Out of that whole list, you might be able to pull up 2-3 names that YOU THINK are minorities based on your assumptions.  You're kinda proving my point.  

 

As far as the schools involved, I wonder if you realize those schools have a huge out of state population or that there were actually schools from 6 different states involved or the fact that the people involved in this scheme were from all over.  Yea, there's a bunch of rich Californians who were caught up in this but they are hardly any sort of representation of the population of California.  They are much more likely a good representation of rich conservatives.  

 

And as far as colleges actively recruiting minorities, that's a different discussion we can have if you want but probably deserves its own thread. 

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Justafan   
1 hour ago, Denali said:

This scheme has nothing to do with "rich people". 

 

It's about people in a position of influence that were so greedy that they were willing to commit these outrageous crimes.  Coaches that had their hands out to take bribes to pretend that these applicants were student athletes.  ACT/SAT test administrators that had their hands out to take bribes to allow for there to be test surrogates and modified tests.  People that had their hands out to take bribes to be test surrogates and/or to modify the tests themselves.

 

Those are the crooks.  Scumbags.  Without their greed and willingness to commit these crimes, nothing happens.

 

With scumbags like that in these positions of influence, it was only a matter of time before these crimes took place. 

 

The only other issue at that point was how much money people were willing to pay.  In this case, the price that these scumbags were charging became so high that only "rich people" were able to afford it.

 

And if you're really looking to blame someone else for these crimes, how about blaming the people running the places where these scumbags worked?  How could they have hired these scumbags to begin with?  How the hell do people like this get past the interview process?  And why weren't safeguards in place to prevent these things from happening?  I mean, the only thing it took to convince the college administrators that these were student athletes was some phony documents and pictures.  And what about the ACT/SAT companies?  How the fuck can they give test proctors so much power? 

 

I expect that there will be major lawsuits against the colleges (USC, UCLA, USD, Wake Forest, Georgetown, Stanford, UTA, and Yale), the ACT company (ACT, Inc.), and the SAT company (CollegeBoard). 

 

And it gets really weird with ACT, Inc. and CollegeBoard because they are non-profit companies.  Can they be sued?  Do they have any assets?  Will all colleges start getting sued if they continue to rely on these testing companies? Will Donald Trump swoop in and shut down these two testing companies like he just did with the Boeing 737 Max?

 

I agree with everything here except the parents deserve to an equal share of the blame if not more here.

 

If a rich guy goes out and hires an assassin to kill his wife, you sent the assassin to jail.... but you also hold the husband accountable because he's huge piece of shit so it is absolutely about rich people buying a leg up for their children.

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Denali   
4 hours ago, Justafan said:

I agree with everything here except the parents deserve to an equal share of the blame if not more here.

 

If a rich guy goes out and hires an assassin to kill his wife, you sent the assassin to jail.... but you also hold the husband accountable because he's huge piece of shit so it is absolutely about rich people buying a leg up for their children.

So if the crooks charged less money so that non-rich people could afford it too, then it wouldn’t be as bad?

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9 Nines   
4 hours ago, Denali said:

I am shifting the point away from the parents to the people that had their hands out accepting the bribes and the institutions that they worked for.

You mean when Harvard took Charles Kushner's 2.5 million donation right before it accepted the average student known as Jared Kushner, who was opined as "the last person they thought would get into Harvard" by his prep academy teachers.  It is the true elite paying millions, not 10s of thousands, to get their aristocratic kids into college who are the ones getting away with this and have done so for a long time.  

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Justafan   
5 hours ago, Denali said:

So if the crooks charged less money so that non-rich people could afford it too, then it wouldn’t be as bad?

huh?  What are you arguing?  How in the world did you get THAT from what I said? 

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Denali   
25 minutes ago, Justafan said:

huh?  What are you arguing?  How in the world did you get THAT from what I said? 

You said that this is a problem of rich people feeling that they are entitled.

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Justafan   
47 minutes ago, Denali said:

You said that this is a problem of rich people feeling that they are entitled.

I still don't get your reasoning.  Charging less or more for bribes doesn't make it less or more good or bad and nothing I said should lead to that line of reasoning.  A system that only gives access, by design, to those with the most money or that can easily be bought is a problem.

 

Individuals are a problem but the system is a bigger problem.  @GOAT9 argued earlier that colleges actively recruit minorities and from my non-minority point of view, my first natural reaction is "that's not fair, hell, that's kinda f***** up actually".  But then, I remember my time as an ROTC instructor and all the time I spent not just on one campus but on the campuses of several schools throughout our footprint.  One look around and it didn't take much to realize that minorities are not well represented, even at liberal institutions such as NYU and Columbia, two of the schools I visited rather frequently.  

 

There's a reason for that and it's not the typical racist bullshit answer of they don't care as much, they're not smart enough, or their culture is flawed.  There are subtle things baked into the system that become hurdles to minorities.  This is one more of those invisible things that people know about but can't really do anything about.  This might just be about money and not about race but even in that context, the majority is much better represented in wealth than the minority and so the problem still exists regardless of the intent.

 

 

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Denali   
14 hours ago, Denali said:

I expect that there will be major lawsuits against the colleges (USC, UCLA, USD, Wake Forest, Georgetown, Stanford, UTA, and Yale)

Right on cue:

 

8 elite schools hit with first lawsuit in massive college admissions bribery scam

 

The massive college admissions scam that snared 50 people in a federal indictment, including two high-profile actresses, has prompted a class-action lawsuit filed by two California college students.

 

The suit was filed Tuesday in a Northern California federal court by two students at Stanford University, one of the eight elite colleges named in the lawsuit, all of which had associated individuals implicated in the bribery case.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

As I said, I read the indictments.  I know what's going on and what will happen.

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GOAT9   
2 hours ago, Justafan said:

I still don't get your reasoning.  Charging less or more for bribes doesn't make it less or more good or bad and nothing I said should lead to that line of reasoning.  A system that only gives access, by design, to those with the most money or that can easily be bought is a problem.

 

Individuals are a problem but the system is a bigger problem.  @GOAT9 argued earlier that colleges actively recruit minorities and from my non-minority point of view, my first natural reaction is "that's not fair, hell, that's kinda f***** up actually".  But then, I remember my time as an ROTC instructor and all the time I spent not just on one campus but on the campuses of several schools throughout our footprint.  One look around and it didn't take much to realize that minorities are not well represented, even at liberal institutions such as NYU and Columbia, two of the schools I visited rather frequently.  

 

There's a reason for that and it's not the typical racist bullshit answer of they don't care as much, they're not smart enough, or their culture is flawed.  There are subtle things baked into the system that become hurdles to minorities.  This is one more of those invisible things that people know about but can't really do anything about.  This might just be about money and not about race but even in that context, the majority is much better represented in wealth than the minority and so the problem still exists regardless of the intent.

 

 

Then you aren't spending enough time on said campuses. Theres no shortage of minorities on them. Either that or youre on the wrong campuses. 1 of the 2. Racism isn't involved. Its stupid and unproductive to even think it. The University cares about donors that fill their endowment funds and the people on those universities care about the side cash they are getting. 

 

Racism is not the problem in this country. The problem is socioeconomic. The sooner people stop obsessing over dumb shit and start working on the real issue the better off everyone will be. 

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Justafan   
1 hour ago, GOAT9 said:

Then you aren't spending enough time on said campuses. Theres no shortage of minorities on them. Either that or youre on the wrong campuses. 1 of the 2. Racism isn't involved. Its stupid and unproductive to even think it. The University cares about donors that fill their endowment funds and the people on those universities care about the side cash they are getting. 

 

Racism is not the problem in this country. The problem is socioeconomic. The sooner people stop obsessing over dumb shit and start working on the real issue the better off everyone will be. 

Lol. When was the last time you were on a college campus?  I visited 42 in 2017. You argue with such certainty but that’s not the same as being right. 

 

No offense, but we’re gonna have to agree to disagree if you want me to believe racism isn’t a problem. I see it everyday and making excuses for it at every turn isn’t helping either. 

 

I absolutely agree with you though that the socioeconomic problem is every bit as big, maybe bigger, and the one problem likely has much to do with the other.

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