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Legaltitan

Let's talk Pete Buttigieg - After that CNN town hall, dude deserves his own thread

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4 hours ago, oldschool said:

Why do you think VA is in play again? It's gone steadily blue as the population in the DC suburbs continues to explode. It's a highly educated diverse area that votes its interest. 

I believe the scandals in both the Gov and Lt. Gov office will take it's toll on the independents in that state. I believe they state will be less trusting of Democrats.

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5 hours ago, Mythos27 said:

Easy. Bernie connects very well with blue collar white voters. What a lot of people refuse to accept is that a lot of voters voted for Trump because of his populist message. Both Bernie and Warren will bring that populist message. In Bernie's case hes got an entire career's worth of evidence that he actually means what he says when he talks about the plight of the poor and middle class and how he won't continue the establishment trend of leaving them  behind . I think 2016 proved that many americans will overlook policy differences or personal flaws if you can convince them that you really are on their side. I think Bernie can do that.

I think the socialist label sticks to Bernie too easily and Trump will use some Bernie's own ideas to try and scare the living daylights out of the poor and middle class. Trump is already laying the ground work to make socialist the new word for terrorist. I don't know if the voters in MI, PA or WI can see through that and I don't want to risk finding out.

 

I think what Bernie has going for him is he's NOT Hillary Clinton. 

 

I also believe many Bernie supporters are making a mistake if they think Hillary lost because she wasn't progressive enough (not saying that you are saying that, but it's a point I've heard).

Hillary lost because those against her, HATED HER and even those for her, didn't really like her, weren't inspired by her and certainly didn't trust her. She had entirely too much baggage and when you are trying to make history you can't carry all the stuff she had. 

 

 

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4 hours ago, NFLStudent said:

I believe the scandals in both the Gov and Lt. Gov office will take it's toll on the independents in that state. I believe they state will be less trusting of Democrats.

I live in VA and trust me, the Northam scandal is already yesterday's news. No one cares. In addition minority voters still support the Northam agenda which I find fascinating. 

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OILERMAN   
1 minute ago, oldschool said:

I live in VA and trust me, the Northam scandal is already yesterday's news. No one cares. In addition minority voters still support the Northam agenda which I find fascinating. 

These dummy Dems finally wised up and didn't just roll over in the face of scandal. 

 

Al Franken should have done the same

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Mythos27   
4 hours ago, NFLStudent said:

I think the socialist label sticks to Bernie too easily and Trump will use some Bernie's own ideas to try and scare the living daylights out of the poor and middle class. Trump is already laying the ground work to make socialist the new word for terrorist. I don't know if the voters in MI, PA or WI can see through that and I don't want to risk finding out.

 

I think what Bernie has going for him is he's NOT Hillary Clinton. 

 

I also believe many Bernie supporters are making a mistake if they think Hillary lost because she wasn't progressive enough (not saying that you are saying that, but it's a point I've heard).

Hillary lost because those against her, HATED HER and even those for her, didn't really like her, weren't inspired by her and certainly didn't trust her. She had entirely too much baggage and when you are trying to make history you can't carry all the stuff she had. 

 

 

Her likability was certain a big issue but I think that it was also problematic that she was seen as the embodiement of the  out of touch, elite, business as usual establishment that many of those voters in MI, PA, and WI had learned to hate.The non-racists voted for Trump because he was seen as a political outsider who was the antithesis of business as usual and much more likely to upset the apple cart. He railed against TPP and free trade which rightly or wrongly, had become viewed as a deal to sell out the working class and further gut U.S. manufacturing. 

 

I know that it's become fashionable to say that policy doesn't matter and that it's all a popularity contest but I don't believe that this is all there is to it. While I agree that the average American isn't some policy wonk, they are certainly interested in hearing a clear, convincing message that they at least think is in their best interest. Just think back to 2016. Trump's message was super simple and clear; build the wall, no free trade, drain the swamp. Bernie's message was simple and clear as well; free college, medicare for all, no more foreign interventions, no free trade. Meanwhile, with Hillary the main message people heard was  "can you believe how racist, sexist, and mean Trump is? At least I'm not Trump". 

 

I'm also not really worried about the socialist label either. Most people who would actually be scared off by that stuff probably weren't going to vote democratic anyways. People forget but Trump was easily the most disliked candidate of all time but he won anyways. The path to victory isn't as narrow as many think it is. 

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3 hours ago, oldschool said:

I live in VA and trust me, the Northam scandal is already yesterday's news. No one cares. In addition minority voters still support the Northam agenda which I find fascinating. 

Wow. Well. I stand corrected then. 

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16 hours ago, Cyrus said:

@Legaltitan 

 

I have higher expectations of the "why" questions. What are his philosophical positions and values? Those are really important, because absent them it's easy to run away on small details and get caught up on data oriented results which don't necessarily correlate to "the good".

 

 

One of the issues I think is that he hasn't had much funding, and so is not able to get all his positions out there. He doesn't even have his own website yet, it's one of those generic ones on the Act Blue site or whatever it is called.

 

I have confidence that he has some pretty detailed opinions and plans and what not, but we will just have to wait and see.

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3 hours ago, Mythos27 said:

Her likability was certain a big issue but I think that it was also problematic that she was seen as the embodiement of the  out of touch, elite, business as usual establishment that many of those voters in MI, PA, and WI had learned to hate.The non-racists voted for Trump because he was seen as a political outsider who was the antithesis of business as usual and much more likely to upset the apple cart. He railed against TPP and free trade which rightly or wrongly, had become viewed as a deal to sell out the working class and further gut U.S. manufacturing. 

 

I know that it's become fashionable to say that policy doesn't matter and that it's all a popularity contest but I don't believe that this is all there is to it. While I agree that the average American isn't some policy wonk, they are certainly interested in hearing a clear, convincing message that they at least think is in their best interest. Just think back to 2016. Trump's message was super simple and clear; build the wall, no free trade, drain the swamp. Bernie's message was simple and clear as well; free college, medicare for all, no more foreign interventions, no free trade. Meanwhile, with Hillary the main message people heard was  "can you believe how racist, sexist, and mean Trump is? At least I'm not Trump". 

 

I'm also not really worried about the socialist label either. Most people who would actually be scared off by that stuff probably weren't going to vote democratic anyways. People forget but Trump was easily the most disliked candidate of all time but he won anyways. The path to victory isn't as narrow as many think it is. 

Trump was not more disliked than Hillary and that's why he won.

 

I agree that Hillary didn't have a real clear message.................at all.

 

I also think the socialist label dosen't scare you because Trump hasn't had a chance to put his spin on it yet.

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Mythos27   
7 minutes ago, NFLStudent said:

Trump was not more disliked than Hillary and that's why he won.

 

I agree that Hillary didn't have a real clear message.................at all.

 

I also think the socialist label dosen't scare you because Trump hasn't had a chance to put his spin on it yet.

As you intimated he's tipping his hand on the whole socialism thing. We'll see if it has the effect you think it will but I just don't think the average voter who isn't already leaning towards Trump will be convinced by his rhetoric. He's done such a good job of destroying his own credibility that I don't think fair-minded people will believe his smears. My concern is that the democratic establishment will cower and rather than help fight the bullshit socialist narrative will instead allow Trump to continue framing the discourse and thus implicitly giving people the idea that Trump has a point when in reality it's nothing but a scare tactic. That's where a strong, clear message from Bernie of whoever is the nominee will be key. The candidate absolutely must define him or herself unequivocally before Trump has a chance to do it for them and then be disciplined enough to stay on message. The strategy absolutely has to be "vote for me" not "vote against Trump". 

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